Sutter is the problem

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Spurs

If a big complaint about the coach is that he didn't play a crappy goalie like Vladar more it is pretty clear people are grasping at straws at this point.

Grasping at straws? The season was lost from late November through January due to Darryl's complete reluctance to stop playing a massively struggling Markstrom over a red hot Vladar.


During that stretch Jacob Markstrom started 19 games and won just five of them while Vladar started just 12 games and had a record of 10-0-2.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Ok then completely throw out Darryl's results from the previous year then when he got Vezina level goaltending.

You can't have it both ways.

Darryl Sutter is a great coach.

His way works - they were in it to game 81 with everything that went wrong, and they allowed the second fewest shots against in the league.

That’s all Darryl.

He has a shelf life. He doesn’t have the horses, at any position.

It’s tough to blame a coach when, of the hundred best players under 26, his two are Hanifin and Andersson.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flambers

Not so sure, they will simply hold out and demand a trade.

You can't legally hold out if you have a contract. And the risk is you get a Yashin decision against you.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Darryl Sutter is a great coach.

His way works - they were in it to game 81 with everything that went wrong, and they allowed the second fewest shots against in the league.

That’s all Darryl.

He has a shelf life. He doesn’t have the horses, at any position.

It’s tough to blame a coach when, of the hundred best players under 26, his two are Hanifin and Andersson.

Yeah, I'm no huge Sutter fan but this board seems to want there to be a single answer for what went wrong. It wasn't just Sutter making questionable decision at times and rubbing players the wrong way. It wasn't just goalies. It wasn't just a bad year for the top end players. All those things happened. And they still missed by a single game or so.

I'd bet Sutter didn't behave in much of a different way than the previous year. It's just harder to take when you lose. Same thing happened with Hartley though from what I gather he was far more toxic, and also just not as good a coach.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Darryl Sutter is a great coach.

His way works - they were in it to game 81 with everything that went wrong, and they allowed the second fewest shots against in the league.

That’s all Darryl.

He has a shelf life. He doesn’t have the horses, at any position.

It’s tough to blame a coach when, of the hundred best players under 26, his two are Hanifin and Andersson.

He was a great coach - However recent history strongly suggests that is no longer the case.

Great coaches don't miss the playoffs 4 times over their past 6 seasons.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

He was a great coach - However recent history strongly suggests that is no longer the case.

Great coaches don't miss the playoffs 4 times over their past 6 seasons.

This roster is dog####.

It has no core players, and goaltending 15 points below league average.

And he almost made the playoffs with it, because he coached them to allow the 2nd fewest shots in the league, cause that was the only way they stood a chance.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

This roster is dog####.

It has no core players, and goaltending 15 points below league average.

And he almost made the playoffs with it, because he coached them to allow the 2nd fewest shots in the league, cause that was the only way they stood a chance.

Yup, if the goaltending is just league average, they'd make the playoff instead of the Jets.

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Let them go then or let them sit out. Not a fan of how Sutter coached this team last season but still don’t want the players making organizational decisions. So the team fires Sutter just for said players who wanted him gone to leave in free agency anyways? No thanks. Flames fired Hartley, hired that loser GG for the players and it failed tremendously.

I am a firm believer Sutter is still a good to great NHL coach, this team just flat out sucked last year and it seems some players don’t want to be held accountable for their awful play. They can go play in Columbus with Johnny where no one asks questions about why the team is complete ####.

100% agree with this. While Sutter might not fit in today's style of game/player management you can't have the team protesting like this and refusing to not play. They get paid to play hockey and the coaches choice is a management decision. Sure, they can certainly provide their feedback and dislike of him in exit interviews to the GM, but threatening to not come back or play for him shows a real lack of character.

This has to be one of the most disliked version of the Flames I can remember in recent memory. There is no passion, leadership or energy with this group. A true lack of superstar talent also hurts the group as fans really don't have anyone to rally behind.

Personally I could care less if some of these guys want out as I want to support players who want to be here. I'm not excusing Sutter for his style and player management this year because he needs to be a lot better but this current group of players is so disheartening.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Yup, if the goaltending is just league average, they'd make the playoff instead of the Jets.

Seattle made the playoffs and is a game away from knocking off the defending cup champs despite having less top end talent and receiving worse goaltending than us this season.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Seattle made the playoffs and is a game away from knocking off the defending cup champs despite having less top end talent and receiving worse goaltending than us this season.

Yeah - they finished 6th in goals for - they had 6 guys score 20 and McCann got to 40.

They also didn’t have their two most important players leave.

Calgary was 13th in GA and 19th in GF - three 20 goals scorers, and only Toffoli broke 30.

Did Darryl suppress everyone’s offensive totals? Maybe, probably - but didn’t seem to be a problem last year when we had better players.

This is a chicken salad/chicken #### case if ever one existed.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Grasping at straws? The season was lost from late November through January due to Darryl's complete reluctance to stop playing a massively struggling Markstrom over a red hot Vladar.


During that stretch Jacob Markstrom started 19 games and won just five of them while Vladar started just 12 games and had a record of 10-0-2.

Vladar was not red hot, he got lucky that the team bailed him out of some very meh performances.

Did we win those games because of Vladar's play or the play in front of him? He did not play well last season so saying that we won in games he played due to others isn't really that relevant.

There is no reason to think that playing a mediocre (at best) Vladar would have resulted in us winning games when he wasn't a reason we won the games he did play.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

He was a great coach - However recent history strongly suggests that is no longer the case.

Great coaches don't miss the playoffs 4 times over their past 6 seasons.

They do when they have mediocre or poor teams.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Yup, if the goaltending is just league average, they'd make the playoff instead of the Jets.

Whatever what if scenario you concoct, they sucked this year

They won 38 games, didn’t deserve to make it

Vegas would have smoked them too

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Ok then completely throw out Darryl's results from the previous year then when he got Vezina level goaltending.

You can't have it both ways.

when it's said he had a "better roster" its certainly relevant

They didn't need vezina level they needed average to be a 100 point team

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Whatever what if scenario you concoct, they sucked this year

They won 38 games, didn’t deserve to make it

Holy smoke, put that coffee down, too much caffeine for you!

I don't know what I have said that touch the nerve of yours, don't agree with me? Fine! Do you need to be this offensive.

Where did I say that they "deserve" to make it? I said if Markstrome had league average then they'd make it. See? "they'd" == "they would"?

Vegas would have smoked them too

Yeah, you said it, it must be gospel!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Grasping at straws? The season was lost from late November through January due to Darryl's complete reluctance to stop playing a massively struggling Markstrom over a red hot Vladar.


During that stretch Jacob Markstrom started 19 games and won just five of them while Vladar started just 12 games and had a record of 10-0-2.

Is this a thing people believe? The team won plenty of games in spite of Vladar's play, not because of it. And the more chances he got, the worse he played. That's not how it's supposed to work, is it?

I'm all aboard the fire Sutter train now, toot toot, but the fantasies people make up about the season are incredible. "Oh, well Vladar was red hot with his sub .900 sv% and just needed ONE MORE game after the All Star break to REALLY get going but Sutter played Markstrom and that RUINED HIM."

If Vladar was as good as people here pretended he was, he would've taken over the starter job. He didn't. The end.

[GreenLantern2814]

^^^####, if they played Wolf five games instead of one, they’re probably in.

[GreenLantern2814]

Oh, and to correct myself, the Flames were actually 3rd in shots allowed, behind the Hurricanes and the… Kraken.

[V H F]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Grasping at straws? The season was lost from late November through January due to Darryl's complete reluctance to stop playing a massively struggling Markstrom over a red hot Vladar.

During that stretch Jacob Markstrom started 19 games and won just five of them while Vladar started just 12 games and had a record of 10-0-2.

So Sutter playing Markstrom in that span is the reason why the season was lost? LOL!

That's a very one-eyed myopic look at the situation. Do realize that Markstrom had a better GAA in that span? or that the Flames scored almost 2X as much per game with Vladar in net?

From Nov 27 - Jan 31
Vladar 13 gms - 2.74 GAA - Flames scored 56 goals...4.4 Goals/Game
Markstrom 17 gms - 2.70 GAA - Flames scored 40 goals...2.44 Goals/Game

By your logic, massively struggling goaltending means your teams offense can't even score 2.5 goals per game, while red hot goaltending means your team is scoring 4.4 goals per game. Shame on Sutter for ruining the whole season with his goalie selections over a 9 week period.


Not a fan of Sutter to continue as coach, but his selections of starting goalies was not the reason for the Flames "lost season".

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Is this a thing people believe? The team won plenty of games in spite of Vladar's play, not because of it. And the more chances he got, the worse he played. That's not how it's supposed to work, is it?

I'm all aboard the fire Sutter train now, toot toot, but the fantasies people make up about the season are incredible. "Oh, well Vladar was red hot with his sub .900 sv% and just needed ONE MORE game after the All Star break to REALLY get going but Sutter played Markstrom and that RUINED HIM."

If Vladar was as good as people here pretended he was, he would've taken over the starter job. He didn't. The end.

When a goaltender gets you 22 out of a possible 24 points, then yes, he in fact is red hot. Evaluating a goaltenders performance goes far beyond simply looking at his SV%. Vladar was making incredibly timely saves when his team needed him too - which is the complete opposite of what Markstrom did for 85% of the year by spotting teams early leads and allowing backbreaking goals on a nightly basis.

The only fantasy here is the belief that all players were held to the same standards by Darryl.

The handling of the goaltending this season was egregious.