[News] Calgary, Alberta, & CSEC agree in principle to $1.223bn Event Centre + infrastructure

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Demzy84

Yes, to focus on “their primary business”….lol

You don’t sell a building you spent $270M on plus an NHL team for a grand total of $275M if you’re not experiencing some cash flow issues. You think at the time the Habs were worth only $6.25M?

Do I think in 2001, in a word without a salary cap and a Canadian dollar that was worth about 68 cents on the greenback, could the Habs be almost worthless in that scenario? Certainly possible. The Habs were bleeding 20-30 million a year in that environment due to exchange rate. Canadian teams were bottom of the barrel in terms of gate revenue.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Right now it's like getting a bill for something you haven't been able to enjoy yet. Nobody likes that, so lots of griping.

Think big picture, folks.

Then another bill for 400 dollars to get into opening night, lol. Stop acting like those that disagree with you don't see the big picture, it's so bizarrely arrogant.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Then another bill for 400 dollars to get into opening night, lol. Stop acting like those that disagree with you don't see the big picture, it's so bizarrely arrogant.

$400 is probably only because people are scalping tickets. I'm sure the upper levels will still be affordable. So cynical!

Not arrogant in any way my friend. Just talking about the shared reality that we all experience.

You disagree, that's fine, but that does not make me arrogant. That's something you're perceiving in me that isn't there.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Then another bill for 400 dollars to get into opening night, lol. Stop acting like those that disagree with you don't see the big picture, it's so bizarrely arrogant.

I think it's equally as arrogant to tell folks who support the arena why we are wrong to do so. I'm ok with my tax dollars going towards this.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Not arrogant in any way my friend. Just talking about the shared reality that we all experience.

You disagree, that's fine, but that does not make me arrogant. That's something you're perceiving in me that isn't there.

No point you've made held any water so you relied on "opening night will be magical". That doesn't hold weight with me, as a tax payer in this province, who's seeing our healthcare system getting worse each year, the safety of our downtown cores getting much more dangerous and the Green Line LRT about a billion years behind schedule. So yes, it's arrogant for someone with absolutely no skin in the game to tell me to just wait, just wait, it's going to be beautiful.

[nik-]

Yet another poster with zero skin in the game trying to lecture us.

[Demzy84]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Do I think in 2001, in a word without a salary cap and a Canadian dollar that was worth about 68 cents on the greenback, could the Habs be almost worthless in that scenario? Certainly possible. The Habs were bleeding 20-30 million a year in that environment due to exchange rate. Canadian teams were bottom of the barrel in terms of gate revenue.

According to Forbes NHL valuations in 2001, Habs were estimated to be worth $182M with operating income of $12.2M and revenue of $70M. Doesn’t sound like bleeding money to me

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I think it's equally as arrogant to tell folks who support the arena why we are wrong to do so. I'm ok with my tax dollars going towards this.

I've never said you personally, or anyone else, shouldn't support this with your tax dollars.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I think it's equally as arrogant to tell folks who support the arena why we are wrong to do so. I'm ok with my tax dollars going towards this.

This

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by nik-

Yet another poster with zero skin in the game trying to lecture us.

I live in Calgary and pay taxes here. Am I allowed to speak my opinion?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Jbo

I live in Calgary and pay taxes here. Am I allowed to speak my opinion?

Yes. I put zero weight into people from across the continent telling us how great this is.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I think having provincial investment in infrastructure development is a big deal. Using their dollars instead of city dollars to build bridges, roadways, underpasses, transit etc. is a big win.

I think having a potential community/private business space around the arena is also a big deal. Creating opportunities for wise investor to come in and develop spaces is really beneficial overall for Calgarians.

Nothing is ever certain in any investment, so you always have to be aware of the possibility of losses. But the more I look at this I think this is a really smart move to revitalize an entire sector of the city. Time will tell, and maybe I'll be proven wrong, but somehow I doubt it.

If the professor from Florida says so, then it's a good bet, I guess.

Look, I get it. It's exciting as Flames fans. Yay. Wave pompoms. Drive by the arena (for those of us who actually live here) and think, "wow, golly, the Flames play there... right there... wow!"

It's all very cool.

But what we could do without is people who don't live here, don't know the city anymore, don't pay taxes, and don't have any actual investment in this outside of "I want the hockey team I cheer for from hundreds or thousands of miles away to still have the word 'Calgary' in front of the name" telling everybody else what the "reality" of the situation is.

The "reality," for many who live here, is that we have bigger fish to fry (actual problems, actual needs to be addressed, actual issues that require actual money). The "reality," is that this is an area that the city is doing just fine revitalizing on their own and planned to revitalize with or without the Flames (construction started long ago on many of the improvements). The "reality" is that when thinking of ways to bring investment in and add some "flavour" to your city, "mid-market NHL hockey" is not the only option (so pretending it's this or nothing fools literally no one).

As much as people want to take the condescending tone of "oh well welcome to reality" or "life's not fair I guess!" it's something we, especially those people who actually live here, are quite capable of doing without. Calgarians might be a little bit... "rural," but we aren't stupid.

Nobody here is against major projects. In fact, those that have been (as previously stated, things like the library) are the ones most for this. I think you could poll Calgarians and the overwhelming majority would be happy to have public dollars go to big ticket items that had a tangible impact on our quality of life or investment into the city. But the "reality" is that nobody is actually explaining why this project, at this price tag, with this deal, for the purpose of hosting this product, is better than anything else.

A world-class concert hall, theater, stadium, etc. There are lots of options. If anything, from the cities I've visited, if your arena or the entertainment district built around it is "the place to be," then it's a sign you're in a bit of a crap city anyway, so who is this really supposed to be fooling?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

Yet another poster with zero skin in the game trying to lecture us.

Groan...

I lived there for a long time and I paid my taxes without reservation. Just because I live somewhere else now doesn't mean I don't get to have an opinion.

Grow up.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Groan...

I lived there for a long time and I paid my taxes without reservation. Just because I live somewhere else now doesn't mean I don't get to have an opinion.

Grow up.

But you don't now, so it's pretty easy for you to tell us to spend our money on it.

You can have an opinion, it's just an irrelevant one.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If the professor from Florida says so, then it's a good bet, I guess.

Look, I get it. It's exciting as Flames fans. Yay. Wave pompoms. Drive by the arena (for those of us who actually live here) and think, "wow, golly, the Flames play there... right there... wow!"

It's all very cool.

But what we could do without is people who don't live here, don't know the city anymore, don't pay taxes, and don't have any actual investment in this outside of "I want the hockey team I cheer for from hundreds or thousands of miles away to still have the word 'Calgary' in front of the name" telling everybody else what the "reality" of the situation is.

The "reality," for many who live here, is that we have bigger fish to fry (actual problems, actual needs to be addressed, actual issues that require actual money). The "reality," is that this is an area that the city is doing just fine revitalizing on their own and planned to revitalize with or without the Flames (construction started long ago on many of the improvements). The "reality" is that when thinking of ways to bring investment in and add some "flavour" to your city, "mid-market NHL hockey" is not the only option (so pretending it's this or nothing fools literally no one).

As much as people want to take the condescending tone of "oh well welcome to reality" or "life's not fair I guess!" it's something we, especially those people who actually live here, are quite capable of doing without. Calgarians might be a little bit... "rural," but we aren't stupid.

Nobody here is against major projects. In fact, those that have been (as previously stated, things like the library) are the ones most for this. I think you could poll Calgarians and the overwhelming majority would be happy to have public dollars go to big ticket items that had a tangible impact on our quality of life or investment into the city. But the "reality" is that nobody is actually explaining why this project, at this price tag, with this deal, for the purpose of hosting this product, is better than anything else.

A world-class concert hall, theater, stadium, etc. There are lots of options. If anything, from the cities I've visited, if your arena or the entertainment district built around it is "the place to be," then it's a sign you're in a bit of a crap city anyway, so who is this really supposed to be fooling?

Firstly, I don't think you and I disagree all that much. However, to the bolded? I don't think you'll ever get a definitive and proper answer.

It is what it is. You either are in favor of this because you want the Flames in town, or you don't. I don't really see a middle ground.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

I've never said you personally, or anyone else, shouldn't support this with your tax dollars.

Maybe not directly, but I've had my share of people telling me I'm dumb on here when I state I'm ok with public dollars going towards something that I actually will use rather than all just going to libraries and public art, which I'm ok with too, for the record.

I don't see what the bug deal is. CSEC is still paying for more than half of the arena. We are getting an additional community rink, and a bunch of infrastructure upgrades. We were gonna spend that money even without an arena.

[FlamesAreOne]

I wish there was a poll asking people if they support this.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

But you don't now, so it's pretty easy for you to tell us to spend our money on it.

You can have an opinion, it's just an irrelevant one.

It's not irrelevant at all. An opinion is supported by its merit, not by any number of factors that qualify someone as "A True Scotsman". I still care about the community, and I still want to see good things there.

To your point, I may not understand the day to day of every citizen, but I have family there and I'm still kept up to date on what the issues are.

I get it, I'm a dirty foreigner now, but that's not really fair. Don't dismiss my points because of where I live. Debate them on their merit or you're being intellectually obtuse.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

It's not irrelevant at all. An opinion is supported by its merit, not by any number of factors that qualify someone as "A True Scotsman". I still care about the community, and I still want to see good things there.

To your point, I may not understand the day to day of very citizen, but I have family there and I'm still kept up to date on what the issues are.

I get it, I'm a dirty foreigner now, but that's not really fair. Don't dismiss my points because of where I live. Debate them on their merit or you're being intellectually obtuse.

Still waiting on that merit that isn't just "feels"

You will have zero financial or service level impact as a result of this. Therefore, your opinion is easily dismissed. Especially because you've provided no legitimate merit.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

Still waiting on that merit that isn't just "feels"

Present a clear argument please. This is just ad hominem attacks.