[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[Mr.Coffee]

I think one of the biggest factors is likelihood to win. Seems to me like the years after 2004 it was much easier to get high profile players to play in Calgary but when the going gets tough, yikes. So while I’m sure weather and all that matters, I think winning likely matters most (maybe after how much $$$$)

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I think one of the biggest factors is likelihood to win. Seems to me like the years after 2004 it was much easier to get high profile players to play in Calgary but when the going gets tough, yikes. So while I’m sure weather and all that matters, I think winning likely matters most (maybe after how much $$$$)

Sutter was able to sign UFAs, and retain UFAs, but I think that was by largely by design. He put a lot of emphasis on trading for and signing guys who he already know could both (1) play Sutter hockey and (2) wanted to play Sutter hockey. And that made players much easier to extend, many with discounts.

The team under Sutter had an identity, it had success playing that identity, and it attracted players who identified with that style of hockey. It helped immensely that the core of the franchise - Iginla, Regher, Dion, etc. - all played that style of hockey.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Sutter was able to sign UFAs, and retain UFAs, but I think that was by largely by design. He put a lot of emphasis on trading for and signing guys who he already know could both (1) play Sutter hockey and (2) wanted to play Sutter hockey. And that made players much easier to extend, many with discounts.

The team under Sutter had an identity, it had success playing that identity, and it attracted players who identified with that style of hockey. It helped immensely that the core of the franchise - Iginla, Regher, Dion, etc. - all played that style of hockey.

He didn’t really sign or extend very many good UFA players at discounts. Iggy got a sweet 3 and then 5 year deal. Dion got a big salary at the time - in 2008 he made more than any current Dman (and next year Weegar makes 250K more). Jaybo made more than Weegar will make next year. In 08-09 Kipper was the 5th highest salary in the league.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

When Gulutzan was hired, it was reported that the Flames had considered Yeo, Rierden, and Carlyle, and they all signed elsewhere before Treliving settled on Gultzan. I am not sure about the first two, but Carlyle probably would not have been cheap. After Hartley was fired 1 year removed from a Jack Adams, I don’t think too many coaches wanted to take a dive into the Flames if they had other opportunities. The team was supposed to be in a rebuild but the bar for results was unreasonably high after the Flames overachieving the year before.

I still think Rierden might make a good HC. In his 2 years as Washington's coach (despite going out in round 1 of the playoff both years), he had win % of .634, and .652. Since then, he's been in Pittsburgh, under the tutelage of Mike Sullivan.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He didn’t really sign or extend very many good UFA players at discounts. Iggy got a sweet 3 and then 5 year deal. Dion got a big salary at the time - in 2008 he made more than any current Dman (and next year Weegar makes 250K more). Jaybo made more than Weegar will make next year. In 08-09 Kipper was the 5th highest salary in the league.

Just out of curiosity, why did you pick Kipper's highest salary year instead of the cap hit on his deal?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Just out of curiosity, why did you pick Kipper's highest salary year instead of the cap hit on his deal?

Because the site I looked at listed them that way. And because his salary was deliberately one of the most front loaded in history.

But if you like, look at his cap hit. And the cap hit on all of those Sutter deals. In the years they were handed out they were definitely not discounts. Except maybe Iggy. His $7M is about $12M now.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Because the site I looked at listed them that way. And because his salary was deliberately one of the most front loaded in history.

But if you like, look at his cap hit. And the cap hit on all of those Sutter deals. In the years they were handed out they were definitely not discounts. Except maybe Iggy. His $7M is about $12M now.

Gotcha. Kipper looks like fair value to me. Iggy is decent discount. Jaybo was a significant discount relative imo

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Only two places are worse really...Edmonton and Winnipeg.

Minneapolis is probably close as well.

Thing is...its not just about the players though.

Wives, girlfriends, children are all part of the consideration, and likely most of those would prefer a more temperate climate if they have a choice.

That matters far more than many seem to want to admit.

Any city near the great lakes have worst winters than Calgary, Windy with piercing cold humidity and snow storms out the ying-yang, Vancouver and Seattle are fine if you like rain,snow and more rain on top with about 10 days of sunshine the whole winter, but you won't freeze to death, so there's that.

People just don't realize how good the winters are in Calgary

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yeah, agreed. Calgary winters are easy

[Sandman]

Calgary has more days of sunshine than any other city in Canada.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Calgary has more days of sunshine than any other city in Canada.

NHL city, sure. For anywhere, it's Medicine Hat.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by butterfly

NHL city, sure. For anywhere, it's Medicine Hat.

Nope, if you Google “Most Sunny Days in Canada”, the answer comes up that Calgary is the most sunny “place” in Canada.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

People just don't realize how good the winters are in Calgary

The problem with winters in Calgary isn't necessarily the weather in December, January, February. It's the weather in October, November, March, April, May. As those months are much, much colder than other major centers in North America and make for long winters relative to winters in Eastern Canada and Northern USA.

[Cheese]

To be fair other articles do say Calgary, but I think these refer to major cities.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Gotcha. Kipper looks like fair value to me. Iggy is decent discount. Jaybo was a significant discount relative imo

Jay I wasn’t a discount at all. He made an ask his existing team wouldn’t accept. So they traded his rights to Calgary and Sutter paid him exactly what his ask was.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The problem with winters in Calgary isn't necessarily the weather in December, January, February. It's the weather in October, November, March, April, May. As those months are much, much colder than other major centers in North America and make for long winters relative to winters in Eastern Canada and Northern USA.

This is why Calgary has much a lower mean annual temperature than all of the Great Lake cities.

Calgary and Edmonton are both 38 F and Oshawa and Mississauga are both 48 F.

[BigFlameDog]

I clearly remember us wondering what Sutter had over Jaybo to get him to sign his deal. Can't remember if it was length or $ that were surprising.

[Bingo]

I think it's fair to say Calgary would have a winter perception, a small market perception and the perception that players won't choose to come here over other options if money is relatively equal.

Maybe some of these tv productions with guys on talk shows talking up our restaurants will help.

Read once that airport connectivity was a big issue for families as well (not saying Calgary is worse than others in Western Canada), but an issue vs most (all?) US cities.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Cheese

To be fair other articles do say Calgary, but I think these refer to major cities.

Even your list has Calgary with the most days of sunshine in the year, ahead of Medicine Hat.

MH has the most hours, but that wasn't the premise.

[Sylvanfan]

The taxes in Canada will always be a bit of a deterrent too. The consequrnce of a cap was younger free agency..so now teams like the Flames have 26 to 28 year olds who can chose to play elsewhere. Around the league more and more of these players are ending up in the same few cities. Getting to be like the NBA where 15 teams are pretty much just filling out the league and the same 10 are always good and a few move in and out of the playoffs.