[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Only two places are worse really...Edmonton and Winnipeg.

Minneapolis is probably close as well.

Thing is...its not just about the players though.

Wives, girlfriends, children are all part of the consideration, and likely most of those would prefer a more temperate climate if they have a choice.

That matters far more than many seem to want to admit.

Take it from someone who has lived a few years in Vancouver, winters there are miserable. You could throw Seattle in the same bucket.

I would have a hard time agreeing that winters in the Pacific Northwest are better.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

If you had to guess, what kind of budget do you think Treliving had for his coaches?…..

Do you honestly believe Ward was his first choice?

$4 million per?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

$4 million per?

You think Treliving had a $4M budget but hired Gulutzan, Peters and Ward?

Or is it more likely that when Murray’s buddy agreed to come back, then he got the $4M budget?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by TOfan

If you had to guess, what kind of budget do you think Treliving had for his coaches?…..

Do you honestly believe Ward was his first choice?

The budget was probably pretty high, but it wasn’t being used efficiently. They were paying people to not coach which was probably wasting a lot of it. Whether or not Ward was the first choice, I don’t know. I am sure there were other choices. I think it’s likely that he was a place holder while Treliving was trying to woo Sutter.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Glenn probably made 1 million order less the Bill Peters dealing was rumoured to be 1.6?

Ward was making 900k.

Its been said the spend on coaches is cheap with Edwards.

Going back to Jim Playfair was probably a cheap hire. Mike Keenan was brought in probably a million? Brent Sutter was kept throughout his contract.

Coaching seems to be a organizational issue.

Seems like we have 2 coaches on the payroll one coaching and one on the beach.

[GioforPM]

Yeah I think they cheaped out on coaches, including Hartley.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Take it from someone who has lived a few years in Vancouver, winters there are miserable.

I guess it depends how you feel about rain pretty much everyday.

As someone who spent the first 30 years of their life dealing with snow and on bad days -30 to -40 weather I didn't mind the rain.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Take it from someone who has lived a few years in Vancouver, winters there are miserable. You could throw Seattle in the same bucket.

I would have a hard time agreeing that winters in the Pacific Northwest are better.

I too resided in greater Vancouver in my youth and they are no where near as miserable a prarie winter can be.

But sure...that makes 5 cities in the NHL where weather is a factor against....leaves 27 others that could be much more desirable...doesnt change the narrative.

[Paulie Walnuts]

What about eastern US and Canada. The winters look brutal in Toronto Buffalo New York area. It can't be just weather the culture in the city probably makes a difference. Plus a lot of these are younger guys married or not the women make a difference as well.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You think Treliving had a $4M budget but hired Gulutzan, Peters and Ward?

Or is it more likely that when Murray’s buddy agreed to come back, then he got the $4M budget?

Honestly I'm just tired of some of the excuses. Now apparently the argument is Edwards wouldn't let the GM hire an expensive coach.

Personally, I doubt that Edwards and Sutter are "buddies" as you put it. My guess is that his salary is based on his track record and coming off a successful season. But I have no doubt that Edwards thinks highly of Sutter.

What coach was Treliving priced out of hiring when he went with Gulutzan?

What about Peters? By all accounts, he was the only guy Treliving was interested in hiring. I don't think Peters came cheap and IIRC he was able to negotiate a 5 year deal despite his less than stellar NHL record.

Lots of good coaching hires in this league that weren't the most expensive options when they were hired.

[FlamesAddiction]

Chicago, Detroit, and St. Louis don’t exactly have great winters either. Maybe not as much of a factor as the Canadian prairies, but likely a deterrent to some degree if the player has a choice and all other things are equal.

And yeah, as someone who used to live in the prairies, I will take rainy Vancouver winters over that. They both suck in a way though. If I was an NHL player, I would definitely try to land on a sunbelt team. Weather wouldn’t be my only criteria, but it would be a factor.

[musth]

I'm of the belief that the team suffers from too many cooks in the kitchen and quantity over quality.

How many AGM do we really need? Maybe they could put more into scouting, pro scouting especially.


I dunno. I can't stand that they sign these free agent to stupid deals and yet won't pony up the front office.

Sutter isn't worth 4 a year and he didn't deserve that immediate extension either.


Maybe bring Nieuwy and or Loob back as GM. We need new blood not recycled bargain bin.

[Paulie Walnuts]

https://www.capfriendly.com/staff/bill-peters

Cap friendly has Peters at 3 years not 5 not sure that was ever reported at 2 million per season.

Geoff Ward was 2 years 900k per season.

Doesn't have the salary of Gulutzan

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The budget was probably pretty high, but it wasn’t being used efficiently. They were paying people to not coach which was probably wasting a lot of it. Whether or not Ward was the first choice, I don’t know. I am sure there were other choices. I think it’s likely that he was a place holder while Treliving was trying to woo Sutter.

The way I see it is; Treliving inherited Hartley, who was always Feasters guy. Treliving and Burke probably thought Hartley would last the next year and they would bring their own guy at that point after they have had the year to see what they have and plan. Then the ‘find a way’ Flames pull a rabbit out of the hat and make it to the second round in a year where they were projected to be in the McDavid sweepstakes. Best year since 2004 in many respects. Hartley wins the Jack Adams and, as Gio stated earlier, Hartley earns his extension. Behind a surge of fan support, there likely was not much of a choice other than bring him back.

What happened next was the Flames fall back to earth the following year and if you believe what Boomer, Warrenrr, Pinder and others close to the team have said, Hartley was basically run out town. The player hated him and bringing him back wasn’t a palatable option.

The Flames fire Hartley and, I bet, Treliving’s budget is limited. In part, I wouldn’t be surprised, is because of the reason you point out. Perhaps there is a budget and whether it’s one or two coaches they’re paying, the budget is the budget. Unfortunately, if winning is the true mandate, I’m not convinced this is the right strategy. Treliving hires Gulutzan on the cheap (I would bet he would have been in the bottom 10 at that time) looking for a young player friendly coach who ‘can grow with the team’ as I remember Treliving putting it. Worked for a year, one could argue, but Gulutzan probably is shown to be better suited as an assistant coach.

Treliving then turns to a former colleague in Peters who he won a WHC with. I would imagine Peters was middle of the pack regarding his salary. No need to dwell on this much.

I’m not sure if anyone knows what the payout, if any, was delivered to Peters but it has been rumoured that this is when the Flames started having discussions with Sutter who apparently wasn’t ready to come back. Then COVID hits and there’s no fans and a fraction of the revenue, so the Flames probably weren’t big game hunting when it came to hiring a new coach. That said, at the end of the bubble there was a three-four week period where the Flames were quiet on Wards status (believe he was interim HC to that point). I strongly suspect they circled back to Sutter and, again, he wasn’t ready to come back. So, they hire Ward on a two year contract and I bet he was probably in the bottom 10, or even 5, paid coaches in the league. The Flames and Treliving had left the door open for Sutter.

Whether it was circumstances or tight budgets I don’t think Treliving ever really had the financial support to go get a top shelf coach until Sutter came back. I remember people being angry that Treliving didn’t hire Beaudreau after Hartley or Vingeault a year or two later. I doubt, very much, Treliving had the dollars to compete.

[FlamesAddiction]

When Gulutzan was hired, it was reported that the Flames had considered Yeo, Rierden, and Carlyle, and they all signed elsewhere before Treliving settled on Gultzan. I am not sure about the first two, but Carlyle probably would not have been cheap. After Hartley was fired 1 year removed from a Jack Adams, I don’t think too many coaches wanted to take a dive into the Flames if they had other opportunities. The team was supposed to be in a rebuild but the bar for results was unreasonably high after the Flames overachieving the year before.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Wasn't it Travis Green as well? We went to poach the Vancouver Canucks for our next coach.

Gulutzan would have taken any job he wasn't in demand. The made him climb mountains and fly at 6am or something and apparently grilled him in a interview.

His brought the bank of Gulutzan with him making his deposits and finally made is withdrawal when he tossed his stick lmao.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I too resided in greater Vancouver in my youth and they are no where near as miserable a prarie winter can be.

But sure...that makes 5 cities in the NHL where weather is a factor against....leaves 27 others that could be much more desirable...doesnt change the narrative.

What about Ottawa and Montreal? Brutal winters there too. Buffalo not great. Detroit? Yuck. Chicago, although a much shorter winter can be bitterly cold and I imagine it would be similar in Columbus.

There’s also a big difference between a winter in Calgary and a winter in Winnipeg (another City I’ve lived in). Different strokes for different folks but I take -20 and not a cloud in the sky over seeing the sun fewer times than I can count on my two hands for 6 months. And I have to say -5 on the coast is damn cold.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

When Gulutzan was hired, it was reported that the Flames had considered Yeo, Rierden, and Carlyle, and they all signed elsewhere before Treliving settled on Gultzan. I am not sure about the first two, but Carlyle probably would not have been cheap. After Hartley was fired 1 year removed from a Jack Adams, I don’t think too many coaches wanted to take a dive into the Flames if they had other opportunities. The team was supposed to be in a rebuild but the bar for results was unreasonably high after the Flames overachieving the year before.

WOW, what a pool of poo!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Chicago, Detroit, and St. Louis don’t exactly have great winters either. Maybe not as much of a factor as the Canadian prairies, but likely a deterrent to some degree if the player has a choice and all other things are equal.

I think the problem is that all other things are not equal. I think people hand wringing over our winters are off base and it’s a pretty meaningless factor altogether.

Sure, the weather can suck in Chicago, or Ottawa, or Vancouver, etc, but there’s something on offer beyond the weather that makes up for it. Does Calgary have top ten weather in the NHL? No. But the issue is that the weather isn’t great, the arena is ancient to the point that players are publicly complaining about it, being rich is kind of pointless after a certain amount (especially if you aren’t allowed to enjoy mountain sports), and it can be a pretty ugly city at times that is mostly sprawling suburbs.

I guess tracing it back, Winters was completely correct. He didn’t say climate was the only reason, he said it was one of many. And it is. Unfortunately for us, it’s a big factor because we have almost nothing else going for us (from a young, rich hockey player’s perspective).

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I guess tracing it back, Winters was completely correct. He didn’t say climate was the only reason, he said it was one of many. And it is. Unfortunately for us, it’s a big factor because we have almost nothing else going for us (from a young, rich hockey player’s perspective).

Yup. Calgary is a great place to be a normal person and build a life. It wouldn’t be on the top of my list if I was young and loaded though.