[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by curves2000

In some ways, it was another wasted opportunity and the Flames fanbase has not "suffered" what needs to happen in order to draft and develop elite level talent that is impactful and cheap. That's the only way to win in the NHL these days. You need very impactful players who are either on entry level deals or team friendly bridge- long term deals. It's just the way it goes. When everybody is getting paid and a lot of people over 30, it just doesn't work to the same extent.

They finished 25th in 2012/13, 27th in 2013/14, 16th in 2014/15, and 26th in 2015/16. That is a rebuild. You can be mad they didn't finish dead last but they were competing with some other terrible teams, one of which was Edmonton. You can't guarantee last place finishes when you rebuild and there was no wasted opportunity. Players will not purposefully tank. The rosters they had in each of those seasons were bad enough on paper to get a top 3 pick.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Next year is a crossroads, but the contracts of Huberdeau and Kadri will just stand in for the bad-money in Lucic or whoever else you think is overpaid.

Bennett not working out as a top line center destroyed this team, it's just amazing what a grenade that's wound up being.

Constant sewing and patching around an "almost there" core, and now we're left with Backlund from that core, and he's not sounding real thrilled about staying.

Ugly times.

The other issue is how some people look at these upcoming UFA players. Forget keeping Lindholm and others. I won't work. Lindholm is being paid a dollar value starting with a 3 next season and a cap hit of $4.8. People are talking about us signing him long term to a 6-8 year deal at a number in the 9 range. If your not winning with your #1 center at an AAV of $4+, your doing nothing but killing yourself at a $9 range.

We should get what we can get for these players in the off-season and next year and use the haul of picks to draft and develop a long list of cheaper talent for a fairly quick turnaround if possible.

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Next year is a crossroads, but the contracts of Huberdeau and Kadri will just stand in for the bad-money in Lucic or whoever else you think is overpaid.

Bennett not working out as a top line center destroyed this team, it's just amazing what a grenade that's wound up being.

Constant sewing and patching around an "almost there" core, and now we're left with Backlund from that core, and he's not sounding real thrilled about staying.

Ugly times.

I remember chatting with friends (in Monahan’s prime) thinking Bennett was going to better then Monahan and that he was trending towards a first line center. Maybe it was Bennett’s second season? That 4 goal game he had haha. Thought we were set for 10+ years.

Sigh…

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yep.

The new GM will come in and make a few changes around the edges, some youth will be promoted, Markstrom will bounce back, the Flames will have 100+ points next season and just like that all will be right in Flames land again lol

With a ceiling of sneaking into the first round to lose in 4-5 games in the second round. Apologies, been following this team since they arrived and I don’t see how improvements can be made…

[Beninho]

The Hamonic trade is in my opinion, the worst move he made. Did not push the needle at all and ended up being pretty washed from game one.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Beninho

The Hamonic trade is in my opinion, the worst move he made. Did not push the needle at all and ended up being pretty washed from game one.

Yup, classic trap trade.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Beninho

The Hamonic trade is in my opinion, the worst move he made. Did not push the needle at all and ended up being pretty washed from game one.

I don’t think it ended up hurting the team as much as the Neal signing. It was bad though.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

The other thing is there wasn't a lot of competitive bids for Hamonic either by the sounds of it. It was made known that he was available for months before he was finally traded.

Kind of a red flag.

Just like no one ponying up the dough to woo Kadri's camp in the initial weeks, except for the Isles who had to move contracts first but didn't.

Maybe the Flames should pay attention to that, and ask why a guy who's available isn't a hot commodity.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

The other thing is there wasn't a lot of competitive bids for Hamonic either by the sounds of it. It was made known that he was available for months before he was finally traded.

Kind of a red flag.

Just like no one ponying up the dough to woo Kadri's camp in the initial weeks, except for the Isles who had to move contracts first but didn't.

Maybe the Flames should pay attention to that, and ask why a guy who's available isn't a hot commodity.

Hamonic was only getting traded to a Canadian west coast team - So Calgary , Edmonton or Van

BT “won” the bidding , just like he so often won the UFA bidding

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t think it ended up hurting the team as much as the Neal signing. It was bad though.

I think they were equally bad but the hamonic trade reeks of exactly what’s wrong with this franchise. To me it was the premature end of the rebuild with predictable results only a few years later.

Not sure why the owner have such a damn hard understanding building the team right would or should result in multiple deep runs making them bank for years.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

The other thing is there wasn't a lot of competitive bids for Hamonic either by the sounds of it. It was made known that he was available for months before he was finally traded.

Kind of a red flag.

Just like no one ponying up the dough to woo Kadri's camp in the initial weeks, except for the Isles who had to move contracts first but didn't.

Maybe the Flames should pay attention to that, and ask why a guy who's available isn't a hot commodity.

I am not so sure that was the case. My recollection was that Hamonic was a hot name and the Islanders were holding out for a big return (which they got). Part of the issue was Hamonic's desire to play in Western Canada which limited the credible bidders.

Kadri was hoping to still re-sign with Colorado, which might have limited interest, but I think there was still tire kicking. I wouldn't conclude he wasn't a hot commodity.

[bluejays]

I have another theory, which I think is plausible in all this.


Brad wanted to sell assets at the deadline but Sutter wanted to make a run for it. Given the ownership tie with Sutter, Treliving decided to be sell or buy, and just said the company line ("I believe in our group") to keep the peace. Given Sutter and team failed, and with Sutter not taking any blame, it really puts Treliving in a bad spot because he didn't get any assets at the deadline, he didn't make the playoffs, nor did he get a better draft position. I think he thought he'd ultimately be the fall guy in a politically awkward environment and that was too stressful to continue any longer.

Now that Treliving is out, the cat is kinda outta the bag and there has to be a reckoning and Sutter is no longer teflon. I think he's out by Friday.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t think it ended up hurting the team as much as the Neal signing. It was bad though.

I have disagreed with you on this before but as time has passed the Neal signing has aged very poorly as you could argue it set the table for Tkachuk to force his way out 4 years later. The cap space to offer him a longer term more lucrative deal was tied up in a horrible Neal/Lucic contract.

However the fact Noah Dobson has turned into a 50pt Dman each of the past 2 seasons and is a 6’4 right shot D it is hard to determine which is worse but I still lean toward Hamonic. It would have been a landslide had the Flames not beat the Knights in game 82 on the back of 4 goals for Mark Jankowski. Carolina finished 1 point behind the Flames and jumped to the 2nd pick. Had the Flames given up a pick that could have allowed them to draft Brady Tkachuk that would have been a Dora or offense.

Justification for both moves:

Hamonic- after the Flsmes surged back into the playoffs after missing terribly in 2016 they were swept. The Oilers took a huge step and pushed the Ducks to game 7 of the second round and everyone was anointing them. The Flames wanted to build the best D in the league with the Giordano-Hamilton pairing being one of the leagues best. They paid up the nose for Hamonic who was supposed to form a 1b pairing with Brodie. A year later Hamilton is gone and Hanifin comes in and is paired with Hamonic. Both Brodie and Hanifin improved vastly when moved away from Hamonic.

Neal- the Flames missed the playoffs in the first year after making the big Hamonic and Smith trades. They struggled to score goals the previous year and needed to improve their offense. They added Elias Lindholm in trade and Derek Ryan in free agency but did lose top 6 forward from the previous year Ferland in the Lindholm deal. Neal had 10 straight 20+ goal seasons including a year over 30 and a year at 40. He was the best free agent goal scorer on the market and 30 years old. Lindholm would end up fitting like a glove with Monahan and Gaudreau and they tried Neal with Backlund and Tkachuk but he didn’t fit so Frolik found his way back there.

The Neal signing may have prevented the Flames from having the money to sign Tkachuk to a 6-8 year deal a year later and the Hamonic trade left the Flames pretty asset poor when they were the best team in the West and hurt their ability to make other deals by missing those picks and prospects. This team would be in a different situation today if they had Dobson on their blueline. The Neal signing has closed the gap but the Hamonic trade is still the worst in my opinion

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by mile

wtf i love salim now

https://twitter.com/user/status/1648775958441377792


ok love is a little much but i hope ownership takes notice

Salim is a treasure there. He doesn't play the company game others do of staying nothing. He's not ego driven but says what he sees and that super refreshing as a viewer. The other guys avoid these conversations and just lob beachballs in their Q&A to management, to keep their jobs. Hopefully Salim keeps his because conversations like this really put the focus on ownership when they've been dons in all this for years with NOBODY critiquing their decisions. They have the media wrapped around their finger.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Trellving bled draft picks for mediocre goalies and depth players, the Hamonic trade was the worst of it. Not getting any value whatsoever for TJ Brodie was another massive misstep.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I have disagreed with you on this before but as time has passed the Neal signing has aged very poorly as you could argue it set the table for Tkachuk to force his way out 4 years later. The cap space to offer him a longer term more lucrative deal was tied up in a horrible Neal/Lucic contract.

However the fact Noah Dobson has turned into a 50pt Dman each of the past 2 seasons and is a 6’4 right shot D it is hard to determine which is worse but I still lean toward Hamonic. It would have been a landslide had the Flames not beat the Knights in game 82 on the back of 4 goals for Mark Jankowski. Carolina finished 1 point behind the Flames and jumped to the 2nd pick. Had the Flames given up a pick that could have allowed them to draft Brady Tkachuk that would have been a Dora or offense.

Justification for both moves:

Hamonic- after the Flsmes surged back into the playoffs after missing terribly in 2016 they were swept. The Oilers took a huge step and pushed the Ducks to game 7 of the second round and everyone was anointing them. The Flames wanted to build the best D in the league with the Giordano-Hamilton pairing being one of the leagues best. They paid up the nose for Hamonic who was supposed to form a 1b pairing with Brodie. A year later Hamilton is gone and Hanifin comes in and is paired with Hamonic. Both Brodie and Hanifin improved vastly when moved away from Hamonic.

Neal- the Flames missed the playoffs in the first year after making the big Hamonic and Smith trades. They struggled to score goals the previous year and needed to improve their offense. They added Elias Lindholm in trade and Derek Ryan in free agency but did lose top 6 forward from the previous year Ferland in the Lindholm deal. Neal had 10 straight 20+ goal seasons including a year over 30 and a year at 40. He was the best free agent goal scorer on the market and 30 years old. Lindholm would end up fitting like a glove with Monahan and Gaudreau and they tried Neal with Backlund and Tkachuk but he didn’t fit so Frolik found his way back there.

The Neal signing may have prevented the Flames from having the money to sign Tkachuk to a 6-8 year deal a year later and the Hamonic trade left the Flames pretty asset poor when they were the best team in the West and hurt their ability to make other deals by missing those picks and prospects. This team would be in a different situation today if they had Dobson on their blueline. The Neal signing has closed the gap but the Hamonic trade is still the worst in my opinion

The cap hit is my main argument and I’m simply going from hindsight. Both moves kinda made sense from an “on paper” perspective. Though what I’ve learned about Neal’s off ice stuff since should have been known by insiders ahead of the trade.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

The other thing is there wasn't a lot of competitive bids for Hamonic either by the sounds of it. It was made known that he was available for months before he was finally traded.

Kind of a red flag.

Just like no one ponying up the dough to woo Kadri's camp in the initial weeks, except for the Isles who had to move contracts first but didn't.

Maybe the Flames should pay attention to that, and ask why a guy who's available isn't a hot commodity.

At the time it was rumored Toronto offered JVR+1st to NYI for Hamonic. They were definitely in the bidding but Hamonic preferred to come to the west.

Allegedly the Jackets offered Kadri 8.5Mx7 at the very start of free agency but he didn’t accept right away and then the Gaudreau thing happened and they moved quickly to him. It would have been interesting to see what Gaudreau would have done had the Jackets option not been there? Would he still be a Flame?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I have another theory, which I think is plausible in all this.


Brad wanted to sell assets at the deadline but Sutter wanted to make a run for it. Given the ownership tie with Sutter, Treliving decided to be sell or buy, and just said the company line ("I believe in our group") to keep the peace. Given Sutter and team failed, and with Sutter not taking any blame, it really puts Treliving in a bad spot because he didn't get any assets at the deadline, he didn't make the playoffs, nor did he get a better draft position. I think he thought he'd ultimately be the fall guy in a politically awkward environment and that was too stressful to continue any longer.

Now that Treliving is out, the cat is kinda outta the bag and there has to be a reckoning and Sutter is no longer teflon. I think he's out by Friday.

I'd agree if the Flames had more UFAs to trade. I think term was a detriment at the deadline. Pretty much every contending team is capped out

[Southside403]

It's going to be some dark times ahead with Backlund lindy looking like they will be gone soon and we have Kadri hubby weegs locked up . What do you guys think will come this season?

[Toonage]

Probably about $10M in departing cap for the Flames to blow on other vets