[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I know people are down on ownership and how things have turned out but in no way are they a bottom feeder organization. They spend to the cap, let a GM cycle through 4 coaches, and have basically been alternating between good and bad regular seasons. You make them sound like the Coyotes lol.

It's crazy what a season with .894 save percentage has done to everyone. Every little thing is being analyzed to death.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

It's crazy what a season with .894 save percentage has done to everyone. Every little thing is being analyzed to death.

Yup. It has also seemingly erased the collective memories of the post Iggy rebuild era. Three top 6 picks is a rebuild. The Flames did rebuild it just ended up with the highest pick being a second line player, a broken down #1c and then two top line players walking. They might not optimize going into a rebuild but they’ll do it once forced into it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

It's crazy what a season with .894 save percentage has done to everyone. Every little thing is being analyzed to death.

No one seems to appreciate that there are multiple things that lead to a good season or not, that players mostly in their 20s can have multiple changes of effort and success even within a season and that working relationships vary from day to day. And that garbage bag day is probably a terrible day to ask players to evaluate the season and/or comment on their future. By definition it’s a day when they are sad and sour.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

It's crazy what a season with .894 save percentage has done to everyone. Every little thing is being analyzed to death.

Yep.

The new GM will come in and make a few changes around the edges, some youth will be promoted, Markstrom will bounce back, the Flames will have 100+ points next season and just like that all will be right in Flames land again lol

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

It's crazy what a season with .894 save percentage has done to everyone. Every little thing is being analyzed to death.

It's not even being analyzed, it's just being indiscriminately dumped on. Suddenly, every player, every coach, every member of management is not only the worst in the NHL but in many cases undeserving of being anywhere near the NHL.

It's beyond ridiculous and it's getting exhausting

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yep.

The new GM will come in and make a few changes around the edges, some youth will be promoted, Markstrom will bounce back, the Flames will have 100+ points next season and just like that all will be right in Flames land again lol

Lol my only fix for that scenario will be hopefully it is Fox that is leading the goaltending turn around. Lol as pointed out, Wolf.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

It's crazy what a season with .894 save percentage has done to everyone. Every little thing is being analyzed to death.

I can take a 91 point season as one to grown on. We have certainly had worse seasons.

However, I don't think it's the end result that has people the most down, but the constant number of things that have gone wrong and concerns about what happens next.

- Gaudreau leaving as a free agent.
- Tkachuk forcing a trade.
- Markstrom's catastrophic performance over the season.
- Huberdeau's historic decline, combined with Tkachuk's rise.
- A high percentage of the team cap space tied up in disappointing players long term. Combined with a cap that is not going up by a lot and the resistance (or impossibility) to rebuild.
- Arena negotiation problems.
- The GM quitting.
- Lindholm and Backlund seeming non-committed to the future in Calgary. It took almost a whole season for this team to start building chemistry after losing JG and MT, and it is starting to look like we get to go through that again next season.
- Talks of owner interference.
- Rumours of infighting between Sutter and the players.
- Getting almost the worst possible draft pick for teams missing the playoffs is a little salt in the wound as well.

And most of these things have been rubbed in our faces by the media and are getting league-wide attention. It just makes it hard to be a happy fan when the club attracts this kind of attention constantly. This fanbase desperately needs something positive to happen. I honestly can't think of any teams that have had so much negativity around them over the course of a calendar year. There was a little reprieve after the Huberdeau acquisition, but that obviously didn't last. Even with the Coyotes, it tends to just be on the business side of things, but this year with the Flames, it is everything.

Before anyone puts their head in the oven after reading all that, I will say that the emergence of Duehr was a very nice surprise, and Coronato, Pelletier, and Wolf give us some hope. I like Zary's potential as well.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Lol my only fix for that scenario will be hopefully it is Fox that is leading the goaltending turn around

Wrong animal

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

It's crazy what a season with .894 save percentage has done to everyone. Every little thing is being analyzed to death.

Surely this thread and the news of the past week have brought forward there are far deeper issues than sub-par goaltending this season.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

. Even with the Coyotes, it tends to just be on the business side of things, but this year with the Flames, it is everything.
.

That’s because there are zero expectations for the Coyotes other than existing. They play in a freaking university arena.
I think part of the reason people are spiraling so bad is that the Flames were hyped going into this season even after all the turnover. They were considered a legit contender by the media and fans. The Flames had a NHL record holder LW, a #1c and two #2 centres, an above average D core and a Vezina level goaltender on paper going into the season. That’s why it was the summer of Brad. It does seem that the Flames records are inverse to the amount of hype they have going into the season though.

[curves2000]

I think we as a fanbase and as paying clients are minimizing this. Sure ownership spends to the cap, no doubt about that, it's in their best interest to do that. They aren't doing that for the goodness of their hearts. The business in Calgary justifies it's self. For a long time the building would attract nearly 19k fan's a game, paying strong ticket prices with a strong season ticket holder base and renewals. Strong ad revenue from the Dome, sponsorship etc. The deal they have with the City of Calgary for their lease at the Dome has and continues to be very favorable.

The ownership group, like they do with their other businesses are doing what is in the best interest of their business first and than their fan base and their sports team second or third.

It's a unique phenomenon in sports where the worlds most successful people who own the teams a lot of times are not successful in their respective leagues to the same degree. You can't just think of your business but what's best for the team that you own.

All North American pro sports owners are incredibly successful and very smart but there are very very distinct differences with the owners who run the clubs and teams that are consistently successful. Success isn't just championships as you can't just buy a trophy but it's long playoff runs, it's high performing seasons year in and out, it's devastating playoff losses late in the 3rd round etc.

I am a die hard Flames fan but we can't sit here and say we are some winning organization when the only Cup we have was a result of our main rivals at the time selling hockey and in some ways, most dominate athlete in history.

We should demand and expect more

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I think we as a fanbase and as paying clients are minimizing this. Sure ownership spends to the cap, no doubt about that, it's in their best interest to do that. They aren't doing that for the goodness of their hearts. The business in Calgary justifies it's self. For a long time the building would attract nearly 19k fan's a game, paying strong ticket prices with a strong season ticket holder base and renewals. Strong ad revenue from the Dome, sponsorship etc. The deal they have with the City of Calgary for their lease at the Dome has and continues to be very favorable.

The ownership group, like they do with their other businesses are doing what is in the best interest of their business first and than their fan base and their sports team second or third.

It's a unique phenomenon in sports where the worlds most successful people who own the teams a lot of times are not successful in their respective leagues to the same degree. You can't just think of your business but what's best for the team that you own.

All North American pro sports owners are incredibly successful and very smart but there are very very distinct differences with the owners who run the clubs and teams that are consistently successful. Success isn't just championships as you can't just buy a trophy but it's long playoff runs, it's high performing seasons year in and out, it's devastating playoff losses late in the 3rd round etc.

I am a die hard Flames fan but we can't sit here and say we are some winning organization when the only Cup we have was a result of our main rivals at the time selling hockey and in some ways, most dominate athlete in history.

We should demand and expect more

You could argue that spending to the cap isn’t in their best interest. It’s a few pages back but the Sens made more than the Flames because of reduced salary burdens. I’m not arguing that the Flames are a model franchise to follow but they are far from a bottom feeder. I don’t think the drive to make the playoffs is from a corporate mandate to make as much money as possible, I think it is because Murray doesn’t like to lose.
Also, why are you ignoring the rebuild after Iggy? Given the choice the Flames will try and compete but when the writing is on the wall they’ll rebuild. People just have different takes on what the writing on the wall is.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Surely this thread and the news of the past week have brought forward there are far deeper issues than sub-par goaltending this season.

Yup, goaltending is a big problem but not the only problem.

In the final weeks with better performance from Markstrom, they still lost to the bottom feeders so don’t make like they are a contender with better goalie

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yep.

The new GM will come in and make a few changes around the edges, some youth will be promoted, Markstrom will bounce back, the Flames will have 100+ points next season and just like that all will be right in Flames land again lol

Seriously, this is not that farfetched. But it might be Wolf or a combination. Flames had what - 93? 4 more wins on the back of merely adequate goaltending and your prediction comes true.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Surely this thread and the news of the past week have brought forward there are far deeper issues than sub-par goaltending this season.

If we get .905 goaltending we lose in the first round and the problem is solved and we have nothing to worry about.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by mile

wtf i love salim now

https://twitter.com/user/status/1648775958441377792


ok love is a little much but i hope ownership takes notice

Where the Flames are likely to go makes my buddies in Edmonton and Vancouver super happy. They know the Flames will never ever move those guys before they lose them for nothing, it is the way. So at least those guys will get 3-5 years of chuckles and joy.

I do agree though, Salim is elite in terms of those who cover the Flames.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Bonded

You could argue that spending to the cap isn’t in their best interest. It’s a few pages back but the Sens made more than the Flames because of reduced salary burdens. I’m not arguing that the Flames are a model franchise to follow but they are far from a bottom feeder. I don’t think the drive to make the playoffs is from a corporate mandate to make as much money as possible, I think it is because Murray doesn’t like to lose.
Also, why are you ignoring the rebuild after Iggy? Given the choice the Flames will try and compete but when the writing is on the wall they’ll rebuild. People just have different takes on what the writing on the wall is.

The Flames had fired Sutter as GM in 2010 I believe as things weren't working well. They brought in Feaster with a mandate to make the playoffs and be competitive.

Feaster brought in a veteran coach in Hartley in 2012 with a mandate for playoffs with a veteran squad who under performed. They brought in Cervanka as a "top player not in the NHL" brought in Jiri Hudler as a strong UFA signing. Had Iggy, Tanguay, JBow, Kipper, Glencross and other veterans. Things didn't go very well and I was on the road trip to California with the team when thing went from "We are competing" to "we can't compete"

They got blown out by Anaheim and LA twice in a weekend and I was staying at the same hotel as the team. Ownership was there so was Ken King and other executives. The decision was made that Iggy and JBow would move on as players had indicated they were not likely to resign amongst others.

The rebuild we did was we got some 1st round picks and some low level prospects in Hanowski and Agistino. We brought in Burke as POHO and he did a deep dive into the organization and fired Feaster and operated as a skeleton staff for a while for 13-14. That was a different strategy year as it was clear the Flames didn't have the fire power to compete. We finished low and drafted Bennett. The Flames played very well in 14-15 and surprised everybody with their play and their young stars in Monahan, Johnny, injured Bennett etc.

After that year and a 2nd round playoff lose, the Flames went back into full compete and make playoffs mode and haven't looked back since. Rebuilding a hockey club involves pain and a stockpile of draft picks, taking on contracts for picks and really hammering home the long term draft and develop model.

In some ways, it was another wasted opportunity and the Flames fanbase has not "suffered" what needs to happen in order to draft and develop elite level talent that is impactful and cheap. That's the only way to win in the NHL these days. You need very impactful players who are either on entry level deals or team friendly bridge- long term deals. It's just the way it goes. When everybody is getting paid and a lot of people over 30, it just doesn't work to the same extent.

We will see what happens but if next year isn't a crossroads than I don't know what is?

[TheSquatch]

Next year is a crossroads, but the contracts of Huberdeau and Kadri will just stand in for the bad-money in Lucic or whoever else you think is overpaid.

Bennett not working out as a top line center destroyed this team, it's just amazing what a grenade that's wound up being.

Constant sewing and patching around an "almost there" core, and now we're left with Backlund from that core, and he's not sounding real thrilled about staying.

Ugly times.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Next year is a crossroads, but the contracts of Huberdeau and Kadri will just stand in for the bad-money in Lucic or whoever else you think is overpaid.

Bennett not working out as a top line center destroyed this team, it's just amazing what a grenade that's wound up being.

Constant sewing and patching around an "almost there" core, and now we're left with Backlund from that core, and he's not sounding real thrilled about staying.

Ugly times.

Last summer was a crossroads. Next year is just further down the path they chose.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by curves2000

The Flames had fired Sutter as GM in 2010 I believe as things weren't working well. They brought in Feaster with a mandate to make the playoffs and be competitive.

Feaster brought in a veteran coach in Hartley in 2012 with a mandate for playoffs with a veteran squad who under performed. They brought in Cervanka as a "top player not in the NHL" brought in Jiri Hudler as a strong UFA signing. Had Iggy, Tanguay, JBow, Kipper, Glencross and other veterans. Things didn't go very well and I was on the road trip to California with the team when thing went from "We are competing" to "we can't compete"

They got blown out by Anaheim and LA twice in a weekend and I was staying at the same hotel as the team. Ownership was there so was Ken King and other executives. The decision was made that Iggy and JBow would move on as players had indicated they were not likely to resign amongst others.

The rebuild we did was we got some 1st round picks and some low level prospects in Hanowski and Agistino. We brought in Burke as POHO and he did a deep dive into the organization and fired Feaster and operated as a skeleton staff for a while for 13-14. That was a different strategy year as it was clear the Flames didn't have the fire power to compete. We finished low and drafted Bennett. The Flames played very well in 14-15 and surprised everybody with their play and their young stars in Monahan, Johnny, injured Bennett etc.

After that year and a 2nd round playoff lose, the Flames went back into full compete and make playoffs mode and haven't looked back since. Rebuilding a hockey club involves pain and a stockpile of draft picks, taking on contracts for picks and really hammering home the long term draft and develop model.

In some ways, it was another wasted opportunity and the Flames fanbase has not "suffered" what needs to happen in order to draft and develop elite level talent that is impactful and cheap. That's the only way to win in the NHL these days. You need very impactful players who are either on entry level deals or team friendly bridge- long term deals. It's just the way it goes. When everybody is getting paid and a lot of people over 30, it just doesn't work to the same extent.

We will see what happens but if next year isn't a crossroads than I don't know what is?

Having a line with 3 40 goal scorers and 2 over 100 pts is elite. There is nothing wrong with how that rebuild went. Unfortunately, we weren't able to keep them.