Former Flames player performance thread - 2022/23 season

[KenHouston]

Sutter was the main reason he didn’t stick around. He knew Sutter wasn’t going anywhere and simply didn’t want to play for him. His whole family was invested in this team during the playoffs. It wasn’t about playing in Canada. His bro plays in Ottawa for Pete’s sake lol. Management disrespected him by showing they didn’t believe in his leadership skills. It’s not about the weather and night life. His own dad has stated he doesn’t understand why he plays video games after games instead of going to grab beers.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Tkachuk was 24. He averaged over 70 pts playing with Backlund who is a 40-50 pt player. It’s not a big surprise that he can put up 100 with better players.

Really? You think its standard for a player to jump 30/35 points in production jumping from line 2 to 1? Even if you think you do, is it Tkachuk making the difference in his own jump or playing with better players? When you pay players upper echelon dollars (9/10+ mill plus), I feel like they need to be able to be elite producers in both the regular season and playoffs, no matter who you are paired up with.

[Hockey_Ninja]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1644156145555193856

The Devils are just as bad as our fanbase is when it comes to not letting go of Johnny lol

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Really? You think its standard for a player to jump 30/35 points in production jumping from line 2 to 1? Even if you think you do, is it Tkachuk making the difference in his own jump or playing with better players? When you pay players upper echelon dollars (9/10+ mill plus), I feel like they need to be able to be elite producers in both the regular season and playoffs, no matter who you are paired up with.

All 100 pt players play with top players. Point is he was a very young player, it’s not a shock that he grew.

Hate him all you want but he is carrying them not the other way around. And he was at least equal part to Gaudreau last year.

I think the playoff is still TBD. It’s usually tie to team performance. He had 10 pts in 12 games last year. It’s not like he quit in the playoffs.

[bax]

Originally Posted by CGY12

To be fair at that point Tkachuk produced one 100 point season. He wasn't a perennial triple digit point producer. In fact if you looked at his career, the jump in production could be looked at as an anomaly.

Also in regards to the playoffs, maybe he does figure it out but in my personal opinion his weakness (skating), that hasn't seemed to improve, is something that when the speed of the game picks up, its a necessity skill to possess to be able to handle the pace of the game, especially if you are relied on to be "the guy".

Also if my comment came off as taking credit away from him for this year, not my intention. Full marks to him. I'm just acknowledging his current circumstance. Lets also however remember Huberdeau scored 115 pts with that group. Of course its tough to compare since Huberdeau isn't playing with Gaudreau but still its important to consider when looking at the season.

Its not so much about the players, its about the style of play. I think its widely known that the style of play is vastly different in the east than west.

Also I will add my opinion on Tkachuk hasn't changed when he was a Flame and now when he isn't.

It’s not even about points. If you were paying attention to the way Tkachuk played the game and and followed his analytics you could easily see he is a play driving superstar who had improved every single season. It’s no surprise that trend has continued.

If that’s your mentality then you will never build a good team. It’s like saying “sure Gaudreau is good, but his shot it a bit weak and he’s not Mcdavid so let’s trade him”. Every player has flaws, that doesn’t mean you trade them away. Especially a player as unique as Tkachuk.

Also your East vs West narrative is nothing but a myth. I’ve yet to see any evidence that it’s easier to score in the east than the west.

Even comparing the 22 to the 23 panthers isn’t much of an analysis given they are under a new head coach.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by bax

It’s not even about points. If you were paying attention to the way Tkachuk played the game and and followed his analytics you could easily see he is a play driving superstar who had improved every single season. It’s no surprise that trend has continued.

If that’s your mentality then you will never build a good team. It’s like saying “sure Gaudreau is good, but his shot it a bit weak and he’s not Mcdavid so let’s trade him”. Every player has flaws, that doesn’t mean you trade them away. Especially a player as unique as Tkachuk.

Also your East vs West narrative is nothing but a myth. I’ve yet to see any evidence that it’s easier to score in the west than the east.

Even comparing the 22 to the 23 panthers isn’t much of an analysis given they are under a new head coach.

Really? From averaging 56 points his first 5 seasons, career high 77, to a season with 104 points (in a contract year), I should have easily seen he was a play driving superstar? Despite his post season struggles? lol

My personal opinion, is you pay players who are unique and play drivers in crunch time, premium dollar, 9/10/11 + million dollars, if they have the ability to be the best player on a championship contending team, pay him. Is that Thachuk? his team right now is battling for the last seed in the east.

Like I said, I don't hate Tkachuk, he's having a great season. If they make the playoffs, good for them. In my world (which is irrelevant), I'm not paying Mathew that type of money when you consider his crunch time performance.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Really? From averaging 56 points his first 5 seasons, career high 77, to a season with 104 points (in a contract year), I should have easily seen he was a play driving superstar? Despite his post season struggles? lol

My personal opinion, is you pay players who are unique and play drivers in crunch time, premium dollar, 9/10/11 + million dollars, if they have the ability to be the best player on a championship contending team, pay him. Is that Thachuk? his team right now is battling for the last seed in the east.

Like I said, I don't hate Tkachuk, he's having a great season. If they make the playoffs, good for them. In my world (which is irrelevant), I'm not paying Mathew that type of money when you consider his crunch time performance.

What do you think of Huberdeau then. His playoffs are no better than Tkachuk’s

Players get paid for numbers. Florida actually has a great deal now, especially he is only 25.

[bax]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Really? From averaging 56 points his first 5 seasons, career high 77, to a season with 104 points (in a contract year), I should have easily seen he was a play driving superstar? Despite his post season struggles? lol

My personal opinion, is you pay players who are unique and play drivers in crunch time, premium dollar, 9/10/11 + million dollars, if they have the ability to be the best player on a championship contending team, pay him. Is that Thachuk? his team right now is battling for the last seed in the east.

Like I said, I don't hate Tkachuk, he's having a great season. If they make the playoffs, good for them. In my world (which is irrelevant), I'm not paying Mathew that type of money when you consider his crunch time performance.

That’s just such a short sighted view. The playoffs are a small sample size. You would really base your entire opinion on a player off 25 games during the playoffs vs 500 in the regular season? You would throw out a 23 year old because you didn’t like their two weeks of play in May?

It’s even more insane when you consider Tkachuk was playing the majority of the playoffs with a hand injury.

You would never sign anybody if that was the case.

And yes, like I said earlier it’s not even about his point totals. If you look past the stat sheet you can see he has gotten better every single season in not only quality chance generation, but also in defensive play. On a value basis he is in the conversation for top 5 players in the league.

[Always Earned Never Given]

Sam Bennett currently second at the Masters!


Need Benning's " Oh wait? there are 2 Sam Bennett's? "

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Always Earned Never Given

Sam Bennett currently second at the Masters!


Need Benning's " Oh wait? there are 2 Sam Bennett's? "

Sammy hitting the golf course already?

[blender]

Originally Posted by bax

On a value basis he is in the conversation for top 5 players in the league.

Definitely, and if the conversation is for top 10, it is a slam dunk no-brainer. Any argument is simply uninformed and wrong. Time will tell, but when his career is finished he might turn out to be the best player the Flames have ever drafted (except maybe for Adam Fox, lol). It's ok to admit that he a superstar and his best years are still in front of him.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by blender

Definitely, and if the conversation is for top 10, it is a slam dunk no-brainer. Any argument is simply uninformed and wrong. Time will tell, but when his career is finished he might turn out to be the best player the Flames have ever drafted (except maybe for Adam Fox, lol). It's ok to admit that he a superstar and his best years are still in front of him.

He needs to get to the HOF first

Flames did drafted Hull, MacInnis, Neuwendyk…

[blender]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

He needs to get to the HOF first

Flames did drafted Hull, MacInnis, Neuwendyk…

Totally fair. I was thinking of those guys, obviously. He is well on his way, though.

[Saqe]

Gotta say, I was never the biggest fan of Tkachuk because of his antics but it's impossible to not love what he done this year with the Panthers. I'm sure he will regress at some point during his contract but right now he's amazing.

I've also noticed that all the retaliation stuff and antics rise when the team isn't winning, I don't remember that being a thing with the Flames. But it seems he just really wants to win. Either way, the Panthers would've been total duds this year without him and they could still miss easily.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by blender

Totally fair. I was thinking of those guys, obviously. He is well on his way, though.

Well on his way to be better than Hall, Nuewy, Big Al?

Wat?

You do realize Hull had an 86 goal season right lol

5th leading goal scorer of all time with 741

Let's not be silly here

[FanIn80]

3 points in a 4-2 win tonight to reclaim the top wildcard spot. He scored the game winning goal with 1 minute left in the game, and then the primary assist to sping Reinhart on a breakaway for the empty net insurance goal 20 seconds later.

40 goals, 108 points. 7th-most points in NHL history for a player during his first season with a new team.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Well on his way to be better than Hall, Nuewy, Big Al?

Wat?

You do realize Hull had an 86 goal season right lol

5th leading goal scorer of all time with 741

Let's not be silly here

Ovechkin doesn't have a 86 goal season. Different eras.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Ovechkin doesn't have a 86 goal season. Different eras.

Still to suggest Tkachuk is on his way to be better than Hall is....a take

Multiple major awards, cup, HOF, over 700 goals...come on now

Also, scoring is pretty high right now...the league leader has 150 points

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Ovechkin doesn't have a 86 goal season. Different eras.

Tkachuk cant score 86 in any era.

Tkachuk is a great player. Point is he is a going to have a HOF career to touch those guys.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Tkachuk cant score 86 in any era.

Tkachuk is a great player. Point is he is a going to have a HOF career to touch those guys.

He was using Hull's 86 goal season as an argument why Hull is better than Tkachuck. I made the point that comparing stats in different eras is pointless. What's your point? That Hull is better scoring goals that Tkachuk? Fine, but Ovechkin is also better that Hull and he never scored 86 so his whole point is moot.