Sutter is the problem

[Saqe]

I have a hard time believing ten+ year veterans like Kadri and Huberdeau can't handle Sutter being a hard ass. They aren't spring chickens anymore and both had a lot of different types of coaches during their careers.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by agulati

I’m not sure about Cassidy, but there were rumored problems in the room. See how the Bruins have now responded post Cassidy

Look how Vegas is playing with him.

I will be interested to see how they are next year.

I think Gallant is another guy who demands a lot from players too.

Barry Trotz was also tough on guys too. Eventually the stays do get shorter and shorter. Maybe with a longer term deal Darryl is being a bit harsher than normal. I really don't know

[FlamesFanStrandedInEDM]

Last year I took great joy watching the Edmonton Oilers spiral out of control with Tippett as coach. They were out of the playoffs and trending downward…Then they fired him, saved their season and thumped us in the second round.

I don’t know why people are acting surprised with the “he won the Jack Adam’s last year”. Bob Hartley won the Jack Adam’s as well…that trophy has always been a sword hanging over their head…

Could you imagine if Sutter gave the young players the same length of leash ownership has given him?


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[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by zamler

Basically the same thing happened in L.A. guess all those players were slackers that quit on the fans.

You’re a paid professional, so yes when you give up you definitely quit on more than just the coach. It’s not just black and white as an NHL team has many dependencies.

I assume you justify players quitting on the coach as nothing more than just not wanting to play for the “mean” guy?

[Saqe]

And Huberdeau and Kadri quit on the coach not even a season in? Like I don't understand that at all. Yes Sutter has a shelf life like he did in LA but it's not that short.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by agulati

This isn’t the same team anymore though. There have been a lot of changes since Hartley and Peters time.

Also Fair enough on what happened to LA but we would be selling Huberdeau and Kadri at pretty low values if we have to move them because Sutter is kept on. If a new coach gives them the chance to rebuild their value, why not take it? It can’t be much worse than it is now.

It's different players, only Backlund has been around for all of it. But it's been Treliving's teams and they've all had this characteristic.

Trying to move Kadri or Huberdeau this offseason would be a really hard sell.

A new voice to try and get these guys refocused might have that short term bump. But I do fear that they could let it trick them into keeping a lot of older players who I don't see as star players and really put the team in a tough spot.

Ideally they'd get those guys reset and along with Anderson and Weegar that's the core group and over the next three seasons anyone over 25 is changed out. Unfortunately the time frame for the likes of those guys doesn't work with their careers.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Look how Vegas is playing with him.

I will be interested to see how they are next year.

I think Gallant is another guy who demands a lot from players too.

Barry Trotz was also tough on guys too. Eventually the stays do get shorter and shorter. Maybe with a longer term deal Darryl is being a bit harsher than normal. I really don't know

Doesn’t disprove the notion of a short shelf life for coaches of this sort. Sutter got the most out of the team last year. He expected them to just keep taking the next step despite some major roster changes and not having built any relationship with new players coming in.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by agulati

I’m not sure about Cassidy, but there were rumored problems in the room. See how the Bruins have now responded post Cassidy

See how the Golden Knights have played under Cassidy.

[Joborule]

Is Brind'Amour a high standard/tough coach also? Guy is a fitness freak, and probably harder on himself than his players.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He's a players coach for sure. Once Peters was fired they became a playoff team annually.

[FlamesAddiction]

Ward was a player's coach as well, and it didn't take the team long to become passive under him. Maybe if they tried a little harder under Ward, they wouln't have had to counter with Sutter. Realizing of course, there has been roster turnover, in general, the Flames have never seemed to fair well under "player's" coaches. It typically becomes a country club quickly.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

What style of play do you honestly think suits this team?

It sure isn't built for a run and gun "Huberdeau" style. There is no elite offensive talent on the roster after him and I'm really wondering if he is even that. No players who can take over a game by themselves.

There has also been atrocious goaltending this season so you either have to clamp down defensively or outscored the sub 900 goaltending.

So what style would you employ with the roster as is?

First I would put Huberdeau-Lindholm-Tofolli and Coleman-Backlund-Mang back together. Third line is Dube-Kadi-Ruzcika. 4th line is Ritchie-Lewis-Duehr. I'd also call up Phillips and let him rotate with Ruzcika to see who fits.

The breakout needs to employ more stretch passes and less of the Gulutzanesque 5 man unit breakout. We are way too predictable. We need to stop dumping the puck in and turning it over to accomplish line changes and instead risk trying to hold the puck more and heaven forbid have a tired forward get caught (but keeping more offense zone pressure).

We need to give out offensive players the most offensive starts and PP time.

I don't like man to man zone defense, and I don't think our team is "quick" enough to excel at it.

I would have also have ridden Vladar when he looked good mid season and put Markstrom on the back burner.

Maybe stupid ideas, but 70 games of the exact same thing isn't working.

[HighLifeMan]

An integral part of a coaches job is identifying and managing the varying skillsets and personalities within any given dressing room. To say that Sutter has failed to do that with this specific group is a massive understatement.

By not naming a captain and continually throwing shade at his own players through the media, to his egregious roster decisions and complete refusal to change up his approach it’s tough to say that he hasn’t gone out of his way to make himself the identity of this organization.

He’s played a massive role in why we sit where we do today.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

An integral part of a coaches job is identifying and managing the varying skillsets and personalities within any given dressing room. To say that Sutter has failed to do that with this specific group is a massive understatement.

By not naming a captain and continually throwing shade at his own players through the media, to his egregious roster decisions and complete refusal to change up his approach it’s tough to say that he hasn’t gone out of his way to make himself the identity of this organization.

He’s played a massive role in why we sit where we do today.

Darryl in his mind is the captain that's why he won't name one. By doing so he is the face of the franchise.

Seems like a bit of a ego trip for him this year as well. Never takes any responsibility. When Tanev gave that interview said blame me I'm a leader and it seemed like it was a shot at Sutter.

[Strange Brew]

^ not that massive a role IMO. It’s the Jimmy’s and Joe’s, not x’s and o’s as they say.

I’m not suggesting Sutter is without fault but abysmal goaltending and stars having bad seasons after signing retirement contracts? Hard to ignore that stuff.

[Kipper_3434]

Would think the team was bottom 5 in the league with the comments in here. I still think keeping Sutter for next season would be prudent, Markstrom sunk us this year.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Would think the team was bottom 5 in the league with the comments in here. I still think keeping Sutter for next season would be prudent, Markstrom sunk us this year.

It has more to do with the smoke around significant locker room issues than where the team is at.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

You’re a paid professional, so yes when you give up you definitely quit on more than just the coach. It’s not just black and white as an NHL team has many dependencies.

I assume you justify players quitting on the coach as nothing more than just not wanting to play for the “mean” guy?

You can take a hard line stance and blame the players, but there are 31 other teams in the league that are potentially trying to be better and not employ a coach that makes his team miserable and under perform.

So what would you do for next season to get the team back into the playoffs.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Ward was a player's coach as well, and it didn't take the team long to become passive under him. Maybe if they tried a little harder under Ward, they wouln't have had to counter with Sutter. Realizing og course, there has been roster turnover, in general, the Flames have never seemed to fair well under "player's" coaches. It typically becomes a country club quickly.

This.

The team has traditionally underachieved under players coaches (Gulutzan and Ward) and overachieved under more "old school" style coaches (Hartley, Peters and Sutter).

Players may not like Sutter and the way he does things but they're being paid a lot of money to play a game, and at the moment they're doing so quite unsuccessfully.

I imagine there are lots of us who don't like our bosses or don't like our companies or don't like any number of factors in our daily work lives, as that's just life. Nothing will ever be 100% amazing. A good boss is a great thing to have but there will always be something that happens that we don't like or don't want to have to deal with and yet we still have to go in and make it work and get results, otherwise we have consequences.

What happened last night was upsetting to see as a Flames fan. It's 1 thing to lose, it's completely different when, despite playing so poorly for most the year you have an opportunity to help yourself in a big way by showing up and gutting out a win against a good team, only to show up and ...well...do whatever the **** last night was. It was awful and frankly it was pretty telling about this teams lack of leadership and a microcosm of their entire season. This team is the return of the "Sassy Millionaires".

The Flames will likely make major changes in the offseason behind the bench and possibly upstairs, which is fine because something obviously needs to change and they're commited to guys like Huberdeau and Kadri for better or worse. However, bringing in another "players" coach is a mistake IMO. The players need to be held accountable and if they don't like the "hard" approach then maybe they should start winning.

Winning solves a lot of problems. Winning is fun.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by agulati

It has more to do with the smoke around significant locker room issues than where the team is at.

I see your point but I also 100% believe every team has players who hate the coach. It just doesn't get reported unless it escalates or the team is a Canadian team in a tough spot.
My opinion is that Sutter is a great coach and poor goaltending has sunk what otherwise could have been a fine regular season.
That being said the powerplay coach can get canned any day now.