Sutter is the problem

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

There is winning with fan sentiment, as a coach you win. That is not happening.

Same argument for players. As players you win. That is not happening with this group. If anything they determine outcomes more than the coach.

[flames_fan_down_under]

I mean Coleman has been in the 12/13 minute range multiple times this season, he doesn't have a melt down.

[Traditional_Ale]

I wonder how much the culture of an NHL team/locker room has changed in the last 20 years? Since the '04 run, when DS won in LA, even to now? Is he really just too old school? Maybe he's actually a psychopath, I don't know. But if it were possible I'd fire all the players over the coach in this case.

Starting goalie is awful. Huberdeau is awful. Kadri is awful. We hit a lot of posts.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

Same argument for players. As players you win. That is not happening with this group. If anything they determine outcomes more than the coach.

Sure I guess. My guess is Sutter would have a hard time winning with the Bruins too. Players don’t have the time of day for these hard asses anymore, that is not a Calgary thing, it is just a thing.

[agulati]

It has probably already been mentioned but look at what happened in LA

Kopitar has 12 goals and Dustin Brown had 14 goals the final year of Sutter’s tenure there. Everyone thought Brown was done, but once Sutter was let go, they both rebounded

Kopitar with 35 goals and Brown with 28 goals and a solid rebound season. It is clear that the room has turned on Sutter. I do like him personally, but I don’t think he is the solution anymore and should be let go as soon as possible.

I get it. We might not have Tre next year so you don’t want to hire another coach, but just promote someone within on an interim basis and let them take it through to the end of the season. The situation feels toxic with all the smoke around the dressing room and this will not help in the future with UFAs/resigning etc even if we go on a rebuild. The sooner a move is done, the better

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by jg13

https://twitter.com/user/status/1638241503398055943

I think something VERY important that Rhett said and is being skipped over, is the utter apathy the fans are starting to show. I know myself, I could give half a rat's ass anymore. Last night is a prime example. I missed the game completely cause I have other things to occupy me. And when I saw the score this morning, I wasn't even a touch miffed. More , "Whelp, there it is."



CSEC has to be very careful of this. Next season I'll probably be engaged to start, but if this continues I'll simply stop watching all together, stop going to games, even stop buying Flames merchandise. And I know I am not the only fan to feel this way.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Leon and Connor play for stats, you think Sutter would work with that? LOL

People forgetting Sutter missed the playoffs 3/4 seasons he coached in LA.

He had the same Corsi crap, wonder why it didn't work for them? I guess scoring 2 goals a game makes it difficult to win.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

CSEC has to be very careful of this. Next season I'll probably be engaged to start, but if this continues I'll simply stop watching all together, stop going to games, even stop buying Flames merchandise. And I know I am not the only fan to feel this way.

It’s rebuild or bust for me.

I love hockey and I love being a Flames fan, but this organization is so aimless. They have no structure to what they do. They fly in whatever veteran hits free agency pretty much every time a free agent even considers Calgary. They’re bad at player development, bad at managing assets, they build their mediocre rosters though deficit spending almost every season. If they don’t actually put some structure behind how they build their team/run their organization, I’m out as far as supporting the team financially.

To me, they have to announce a rebuild before season ticket renewals go out in a few weeks. Them scraping into the playoffs, even if they win a round or two, is immaterial at this point. Rebuild or bust.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

I think something VERY important that Rhett said and is being skipped over, is the utter apathy the fans are starting to show. I know myself, I could give half a rat's ass anymore. Last night is a prime example. I missed the game completely cause I have other things to occupy me. And when I saw the score this morning, I wasn't even a touch miffed. More , "Whelp, there it is."



CSEC has to be very careful of this. Next season I'll probably be engaged to start, but if this continues I'll simply stop watching all together, stop going to games, even stop buying Flames merchandise. And I know I am not the only fan to feel this way.

100%. As a season ticket holder, this will significantly impact my decision to renew. If the players don’t give a #### and if ownership doesn’t give a ####, why would we continue to fork out our money.

Coach and players don’t see eye to eye. If we rebuild, Sutter is not the guy to do it with. He obviously can’t continue with the same lineup, then what is the point of sticking with him.

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It’s rebuild or bust for me.

I love hockey and I love being a Flames fan, but this organization is so aimless. They have no structure to what they do. They fly in whatever veteran hits free agency pretty much every time a free agent even considers Calgary. They’re bad at player development, bad at managing assets, they build their mediocre rosters though deficit spending almost every season. If they don’t actually put some structure behind how they build their team/run their organization, I’m out as far as supporting the team financially.

To me, they have to announce a rebuild before season ticket renewals go out in a few weeks. Them scraping into the playoffs, even if they win a round or two, is immaterial at this point. Rebuild or bust.

I think a lot of us would definitely support a rebuild. The huby and kadri contracts make that difficult (not impossible).

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Leon and Connor play for stats, you think Sutter would work with that? LOL

People forgetting Sutter missed the playoffs 3/4 seasons he coached in LA.

He had the same Corsi crap, wonder why it didn't work for them? I guess scoring 2 goals a game makes it difficult to win.

Sorry this is not true. He missed the playoffs 2 out of the 6 seasons he was there.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by agulati

It has probably already been mentioned but look at what happened in LA

Kopitar has 12 goals and Dustin Brown had 14 goals the final year of Sutter’s tenure there. Everyone thought Brown was done, but once Sutter was let go, they both rebounded

Kopitar with 35 goals and Brown with 28 goals and a solid rebound season. It is clear that the room has turned on Sutter. I do like him personally, but I don’t think he is the solution anymore and should be let go as soon as possible.

I get it. We might not have Tre next year so you don’t want to hire another coach, but just promote someone within on an interim basis and let them take it through to the end of the season. The situation feels toxic with all the smoke around the dressing room and this will not help in the future with UFAs/resigning etc even if we go on a rebuild. The sooner a move is done, the better

Yeah but they also got swept in the playoffs and finished last in the Division the next season.

So they could replace Sutter...but that might do more harm than good given how many new guys need new deals next year and might trick this team into extending a lot of older players who really are not top end guys.

This has been a strange team. You get the old school hardass and the team responds for a season. Did with Hartley and Peter's...but within a year they wilt and can't handle it.

They could get Cooper or Bednar and these flakes probably do the same thing.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Sorry this is not true. He missed the playoffs 2 out of the 6 seasons he was there.

Sorry 2/3 last 3 seasons missed the playoffs and had his players plead for his firing even before that.

Lombardi wanted to fire him after the first miss but ownership blocked him.

How many cup winning coaches get tossed after winning 2 cups after missing the playoffs the next season?

Not many coaches bring this toxic environment you have to look at Mike Keenan as a comparable. This is how he behaved. Remember when he chased away players. But hey he won a cup he can do no wrong.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Yeah but they also got swept in the playoffs and finished last in the Division the next season.

So they could replace Sutter...but that might do more harm than good given how many new guys need new deals next year and might trick this team into extending a lot of older players who really are not top end guys.

Yeah because they entered into a rebuilding phase. Slowly moving on from the old core.

They also had a Sutter hold over in John Stevens. This new Kings group with some of the old guard and young players looked like a refreshed group.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Yeah but they also got swept in the playoffs and finished last in the Division the next season.

So they could replace Sutter...but that might do more harm than good given how many new guys need new deals next year and might trick this team into extending a lot of older players who really are not top end guys.

This has been a strange team. You get the old school hardass and the team responds for a season. Did with Hartley and Peter's...but within a year they wilt and can't handle it.

They could get Cooper or Bednar and these flakes probably do the same thing.

This isn’t the same team anymore though. There have been a lot of changes since Hartley and Peters time.

Also Fair enough on what happened to LA but we would be selling Huberdeau and Kadri at pretty low values if we have to move them because Sutter is kept on. If a new coach gives them the chance to rebuild their value, why not take it? It can’t be much worse than it is now.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Yes so what's the issue with what I said? Sutter is looking to hold Kadri accountable, he reduced his ice time, and the result is complaining from the player and criticism of Sutter's methods? I see nothing wrong with reducing a players ice time to send a message.

Maybe the problem is Sutter forcing the team to play a way that doesn't suit their skills. Or refusing to adjust the system that he's win with before.

Bad Sutter moves in no particular order:

- forcing Huberdeau from left wing (his entire career) to right wing;
- terrible comments about players in the media;
- running Valimaki out of town;
- refusal to play best players big minutes;
- playing Lucic too high in the lineup, for too many minutes a night, and at key times;
- Refusal to focus on line matching (see Oilers series);
- refusing to adjust line combinations for way, way too long;
- terrible PP;
- hey, why are Gaudreau and Tkachuk no longer here?
- refusal to switch to Vladar mid season when Vladar looked good and Markstrom was dog####;
- makes absolutley stupid player decisions when trailing in games (Lucic with the goalie pulled?);
- an absolute refusal to even consider changing the style of play to suit the players on the team. We have players with track records of success and Sutter seems to think he needs to "fix" how they play;
- Troy Stretcher to the rescue? What has this guy done to earn time over Gilbert?
- Phillips was never given even close to a fair chance (see Valimaki).

A good coach can't magically make a team a winner, but the wrong coach can definitely make a team worse.

Sutter is the wrong coach for this team, and I don't know if he is suited to the style that seems to be winning in the NHL today.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

My thoughts on Sutter have been clear that I personally like him, but obviously where there's smoke there's fire. Something is going to have to give.

But I'm surprised more people aren't upset with the players as they have essentially quit on the coach, which I translate to quitting on owners, management and most importantly fans. Hearing comments like we won't come back if he is the coach is just further proof how poor the characters on this team are.

Basically the same thing happened in L.A. guess all those players were slackers that quit on the fans.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by zamler

Basically the same thing happened in L.A. guess all those players were slackers that quit on the fans.

Who are the hard asses that still coach in the NHL? Sutter, Torts, Laviolette? Are there others? Maybe Ruff?

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Maybe the problem is Sutter forcing the team to play a way that doesn't suit their skills. Or refusing to adjust the system that he's win with before.

Bad Sutter moves in no particular order:

- forcing Huberdeau from left wing (his entire career) to right wing;
- terrible comments about players in the media;
- running Valimaki out of town;
- refusal to play best players big minutes;
- playing Lucic too high in the lineup, for too many minutes a night, and at key times;
- Refusal to focus on line matching (see Oilers series);
- refusing to adjust line combinations for way, way too long;
- terrible PP;
- hey, why are Gaudreau and Tkachuk no longer here?
- refusal to switch to Vladar mid season when Vladar looked good and Markstrom was dog####;
- makes absolutley stupid player decisions when trailing in games (Lucic with the goalie pulled?);
- an absolute refusal to even consider changing the style of play to suit the players on the team. We have players with track records of success and Sutter seems to think he needs to "fix" how they play;
- Troy Stretcher to the rescue? What has this guy done to earn time over Gilbert?
- Phillips was never given even close to a fair chance (see Valimaki).

A good coach can't magically make a team a winner, but the wrong coach can definitely make a team worse.

Sutter is the wrong coach for this team, and I don't know if he is suited to the style that seems to be winning in the NHL today.

What style of play do you honestly think suits this team?

It sure isn't built for a run and gun "Huberdeau" style. There is no elite offensive talent on the roster after him and I'm really wondering if he is even that. No players who can take over a game by themselves.

There has also been atrocious goaltending this season so you either have to clamp down defensively or outscored the sub 900 goaltending.

So what style would you employ with the roster as is?

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Who are the hard asses that still coach in the NHL? Sutter, Torts, Laviolette? Are there others? Maybe Ruff?

I’m not sure about Cassidy, but there were rumored problems in the room. See how the Bruins have now responded post Cassidy