Sutter is the problem

[btimbit]

Flames just seem to suck every second year. Coach doesn't matter, watch them change nothing and go on a run. Hockey's ####in weird

[Burning Beard]

By your loose definition of "Career Years" most of this current roster is having a career year again under Sutter. Big ones in my mind that aren't are Markstrom, Huberdeau and Mangiapane.

He said he only decided to come back when we had a good goalie because he isn't an idiot and knows his system needs one to win. And by win he meant a cup. This roster isn't the Avalanche from last year and can't win without a goalie who is good at stopping pucks. This year not a single soul can call the goaltending adequate.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Looking at it from a numbers perspective, are the Flames a bad team?

Actually, the Flames look like a powerhouse team with absolute garbage goaltending.

Dominant possession numbers. Comfortably “out-Corsi” every team in the league except Carolina.

And they’re not just peppering teams with low-quality shots. They generate above-average numbers of high-quality and medium-quality scoring chances too. On top of which they absolutely FLOOD other teams with low quality shots.

They have a low shooting percentage, but that’s not such a big deal when the Flames are doing all of the shooting.

They’re elite defensively.

Second fewest shots against in the NHL. And most of those shots against are muffins, because they’re a top-5 team at suppressing high and medium danger shots.

But they’re getting a sub-900 save % from both goalies. Bottom 5 in the league in most circumstances.

At even strength, with the game within a goal, the Flames have the 2nd worst sv% in the league.

When playing with a lead, league-average teams like Pittsburgh are posting a .914 sv%. Calgary’s goalies are posting a combined .875 sv%.

And again, it’s not because they’re facing more difficult shots than other teams. It’s because our starter has been awful and our backup has played like a backup.

I’m not saying Sutter is perfect or beyond reproach.

I’m saying that if the Flames put a 5 gallon bucket with a brick on top into the net, they’d be challenging for the division.

20th in the league for scoring, 18 games scoring 0 or 1 goals. This is not a powerhouse no matter what the advanced stats say.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

By your loose definition of "Career Years" most of this current roster is having a career year again under Sutter. Big ones in my mind that aren't are Markstrom, Huberdeau and Mangiapane.

He said he only decided to come back when we had a good goalie because he isn't an idiot and knows his system needs one to win. And by win he meant a cup. This roster isn't the Avalanche from last year and can't win without a goalie who is good at stopping pucks. This year not a single soul can call the goaltending adequate.

Well if the only way to win with his style is a good goalie he really isn't a top tier coach is he?

Speaks to his inability to adapt to the modern game and playing a rush game.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Well if the only way to win with his style is a good goalie he really isn't a top tier coach is he?

Speaks to his inability to adapt to the modern game and playing a rush game.

I bet you a vast majority of teams would have been sunk with our goaltending this year. If you can't admit that then I have nothing else to say.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

How was Jonathan Quick's .911 sv% in 2014 considered "hot goaltending?" Actually pretty paltry playoff numbers actually.

Also, Sutter lead an 8th seed to one of the most dominant runs in playoff history going 16-4 enroute to winning the 2012 Stanley Cup.

Think the guy might know a thing or 2 about what it takes to win in the playoffs.

11 years ago.

The games changed ALOT.

He also had Prime Doughty, Brown, Kopitar Carter, Voynov , Williams.

[PepsiFree]

I can’t wait for the loss where all of the people who hate Sutter and post about why they hate Sutter 5-10 times a week finally have enough evidence to convince everyone else that Sutter is, in fact, bad. Then and only then, when we are all united, can we bring out findings to management, where nothing will be done.

What a day that will be.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by zamler

Taking the totality of posts I've come to the conclusion that no one is to blame and nothing can be done.

Or....everyone and everything is to blame and unless everyone is fired or traded, nothing can be done?

[Snuffleupagus]

For me there's been enough evidence against Sutter since last years playoffs, his refusal to give Markstrom a break when he clearly needed one was brutal. This year I could write a book on the reasons I want him back on the farm.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

By your loose definition of "Career Years" most of this current roster is having a career year again under Sutter. Big ones in my mind that aren't are Markstrom, Huberdeau and Mangiapane.

He said he only decided to come back when we had a good goalie because he isn't an idiot and knows his system needs one to win. And by win he meant a cup. This roster isn't the Avalanche from last year and can't win without a goalie who is good at stopping pucks. This year not a single soul can call the goaltending adequate.

The goaltending has been inadequate but it's been far from the only problem this season. When you can only muster 1 goal and hardly any quality chances against a team tanking for Bedard, you know there's something wrong with your offensive approach to the game.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

It was career years by large margins up until that point.

So it's not like Sutter magically got more out of them.

The point stands that it was Darryl's best regular season getting offensive stats and numbers.

He has killed skill for his team and the opposition his entire career. Hockey Hall of famer Jarome Iginla had 73 points under him and 67 when the nhl went to a more open style.

Why do you keep going back 20 or so years? I mean you want to play that game? Roenick had great years with Sutter as did Nolan. Kopitar stayed right around his career average. And ask Iginla what NHL season he’s most fond of? I bet you’ll get the answer.
Anyway, his teams generate a lot more offense now than I recall in the past. Not enough finishers on the team, that’s really the problem offensively. Goaltending has been the other and of course the coach does some things we don’t like. All coaches do that though.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Major Major

This article is a freaking disaster! So Tage Thompson has the most posts but if you count crossbars Petterson has as many. Tyler Toffoli brings up the rear with 3 fewer than those guys, but one more than them if you count crossbars.

Dude, just count crossbars and give a total! It's not really relent what part of the edge of the net you hit!

They write it poorly for their Edmonton audience where they call it a post whether it’s a post or a crossbar. These people also call columns beams and probably call columns rows in Excel.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

LOL. Almost like one season doesn't define either of them.

And yet even in that one season, Peters won one playoff game. Sutter 5.

Hartley got 5 wins too and less losses in the playoffs. He is way better than both.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

I bet you a vast majority of teams would have been sunk with our goaltending this year. If you can't admit that then I have nothing else to say.

Yeah the goaltending has not been great but Vladar was giving us quality starts and the coach kept putting in Markstrom that's on Sutter.

Scoring 1 goal against bottom feeders like Montreal and Anaheim won't win you many hockey games.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Yeah the goaltending has not been great but Vladar was giving us quality starts and the coach kept putting in Markstrom that's on Sutter.

Scoring 1 goal against bottom feeders like Montreal and Anaheim won't win you many hockey games.

Vladar is just not that good, the season always hinged on Markstrom finding his game.

Scoring is a legitimate concern though, 21st in goals per game isn't good enough. Only 2 likely playoff teams are worse than the Flames.

I put most of that on the players, mainly the big contract guys. But a better PP would make a difference and whatever we are doing isn't working very well.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Vladar is just not that good, the season always hinged on Markstrom finding his game.

Scoring is a legitimate concern though, 21st in goals per game isn't good enough. Only 2 likely playoff teams are worse than the Flames.

I put most of that on the players, mainly the big contract guys. But a better PP would make a difference and whatever we are doing isn't working very well.

It should be a concern moving forward because his teams don't score look at his historical record. This isn't just Huberdeau other guys that have had brilliant careers have had their numbers dip.

Edit: here are his offensive rankings as head coach minus the half season in San Jose and Calgary.

19/24
19/26
7/26
18/26
21/27
16/28
17/30
4/30
19/30
27/30
29/30
10/30
26/30
18/30
14/30
24/30
19/31
6/32

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Scoring is a legitimate concern though, 21st in goals per game isn't good enough. Only 2 likely playoff teams are worse than the Flames.

I put most of that on the players, mainly the big contract guys. But a better PP would make a difference and whatever we are doing isn't working very well.

I put that strictly on the Neanderthal system of playing ring-around-the-rosey on the boards and taking low percentage shots from the point or outside. You're not beating many goaltenders from those locations no matter how many low-quality shots you throw at the net. Games are won on high quality scoring opportunities from the middle of the ice or on the rush where you force the goaltender to move or make a guess. The Flames rarely penetrate the middle and their transition game isn't worth ####. How many goals have the Flames scored on the rush this season? Not many. Dump and chase hockey is from the Mesozoic era. Evolve or die out.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I put most of that on the players, mainly the big contract guys. But a better PP would make a difference and whatever we are doing isn't working very well.

If the Flames had even an average PP, they're probably sitting comfortably in a playoff spot right now. Guys like Huberdeau and Kadri should thrive with the man advantage, but something about the system they're using just doesn't work with this mix of players.

Also, whoever is coaching the PP should be one of the first people replaced this summer.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

It should be a concern moving forward because his teams don't score look at his historical record. This isn't just Huberdeau other guys that have had brilliant careers have had their numbers dip.

Edit: here are his offensive rankings as head coach minus the half season in San Jose and Calgary.

19/24
19/26
7/26
18/26
21/27
16/28
17/30
4/30
19/30
27/30
29/30
10/30
26/30
18/30
14/30
24/30
19/31
6/32

Why would you isolate this part of his record and not look at his actual, you know, wins?

If you're going to lay offensive production solely at the feet of the coach, maybe you should put everything else there too.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I put that strictly on the Neanderthal system of playing ring-around-the-rosey on the boards and taking low percentage shots from the point or outside. You're not beating many goaltenders from those locations no matter how many low-quality shots you throw at the net. Games are won on high quality scoring opportunities from the middle of the ice or on the rush where you force the goaltender to move or make a guess. The Flames rarely penetrate the middle and their transition game isn't worth ####. How many goals have the Flames scored on the rush this season? Not many. Dump and chase hockey is from the Mesozoic era. Evolve or die out.

The Flames are 8th for homeplate shots this season.

This isn't a perimeter issue.

They're 18th in home plate danger though, so they're not getting the home plate shots with an event to get the goalie moving.

That could be coaching, but the Flames were 11th in home plate danger last year, so it wasn't being coached out.

So I think it's partly a different team with less players that either can or are willing to take the puck into the danger areas and create chaos.

I think it's two things ...

1) a roster that doesn't have the one on one skills to create the high danger events

2) a coach that puts shot volume number one, perhaps eliminating the possibility for the high danger too often in exchange for a shot count

That and the randomness of hockey makes me think you could bring back the entire roster and Sutter next year and be 2nd in the division.

But Sutter's stubbornness has worn thin with me. I feel he's coaching to stick it to someone at all times ... the fans? the GM? the ownership?

Getting old.