Sutter is the problem

[FBI]

Those of you saying Sutter is elite, can you tell us what he is doing well as a coach this year?

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by FBI

Those of you saying Sutter is elite, can you tell us what he is doing well as a coach this year?

Possession.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by FBI

Those of you saying Sutter is elite, can you tell us what he is doing well as a coach this year?

Well, he's prepared the team well so they start at the drop of the puck. Oh wait...
Well, he's put together a rock solid lineup where all the lines have balance. Oh wait...
Well, he's been really good at recognizing chemistry between players and keeping together guys that on the same wave length. Oh wait...
Well, He's been great at drafting game plans that take advantage of the opposition's weaknesses so the Flames have the best chance to win. Oh wait...
Well, he's been great at handling the young up and comers and make sure they get opportunity to step and contribute. Oh wait...
Well, he's been a master tactician and has matched lines to keep the opposition's best playing against our best checkers. Oh wait...
Well, he's been really good at minimizing the ice time of aging veterans who can't keep up with the play and playing guys that can keep up. Oh wait...
Well, he's been a real motivator and the team is pulling in the same direction. Oh wait...
Well, he's been amazing at handling the media and not letting things turn into a media circus. Oh wait...

Well, he does have two Stanley Cup rings, after guiding his 2011-12 Kings to an 8th place finish in the Western Conference, and his 2013-14 Kings to a 6th place finish in the Western Conference. Just make the playoffs and anything can happen. Elite.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Press Level

The 21-22 Flames were carried by one of the best top lines in franchise history and Vezina-calibre goaltending.
This year, the goaltending was sub-par and 2/3 of the top line were replaced by players who were not as good. Blame the coach all you want, but the reality is that the players are simply not good enough.

The true "villians," (if anyone needs to be villified) are two elite players who did not want to play in Calgary and a goaltender who became a head case for most of the season.

Johnny could have been signed long term before the season started for a lot less than $10.5m, signing Matthew to a walk away 3 year deal was epic fail.

Those two leaving is all on Treliving and or ownership but even after those dumb-dumb moves they may have still stayed if Sutter wasn't the coach.

[zamler]

Flames have the worst shooting % in the league that can't be a coaching problem.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by zamler

Do you think this season Sutter's coaching has been elite? In fact rate Sutter, 1 to 10.

Sutter’s coaching has been fine this season, I mean, it’s basically the same coaches with the same messages, same systems, same special teams and largely the same group that produced last year’s results. Even this team’s underlying numbers look pretty similar to last year’s 50 win team minus the comparable goaltending and finishing which speaks more to a lack of individual execution than coaching IMO.

But do you know whose performances have deviated and regressed greatly from last year? Markstrom and Huberdeau. Let’s just call a spade a spade here, these 2 obvious candidates have had nightmare seasons and this team quite simply put, has not been able to cushion or absorb their poor performances.

Just think where this team would be right now if both players just played up to their career averages. Not even peak performances, just their averages. That would be about 73 points for Huberdeau in an 82 game season and .910 sv% for Markstrom which by my math, adds approximately +35 to this team’s goal differential.

Comparing that to other teams with similar goal differentials, that would put the Flames at roughly 81-82 points this season or comfortably in a playoff position with an outside shot at winning the division.

So as much as everyone here nitpicks the little things Sutter does or doesn’t do, those little things do not and cannot overcome 2 star players who haven’t played anywhere close to their expectations.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by zamler

Flames have the worst shooting % in the league that can't be a coaching problem.

It is when you look at his coaching history. Not only poor shooting % but his teams goals for ranking in 14/18 seasons have been right near the bottom of the league.

Darryl Sutter kills offence for both teams.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Well, he's prepared the team well so they start at the drop of the puck. Oh wait...
Well, he's put together a rock solid lineup where all the lines have balance. Oh wait...
Well, he's been really good at recognizing chemistry between players and keeping together guys that on the same wave length. Oh wait...
Well, He's been great at drafting game plans that take advantage of the opposition's weaknesses so the Flames have the best chance to win. Oh wait...
Well, he's been great at handling the young up and comers and make sure they get opportunity to step and contribute. Oh wait...
Well, he's been a master tactician and has matched lines to keep the opposition's best playing against our best checkers. Oh wait...
Well, he's been really good at minimizing the ice time of aging veterans who can't keep up with the play and playing guys that can keep up. Oh wait...
Well, he's been a real motivator and the team is pulling in the same direction. Oh wait...
Well, he's been amazing at handling the media and not letting things turn into a media circus. Oh wait...

Well, he does have two Stanley Cup rings, after guiding his 2011-12 Kings to an 8th place finish in the Western Conference, and his 2013-14 Kings to a 6th place finish in the Western Conference. Just make the playoffs and anything can happen. Elite.

Or pray you sneak and and just ride hot goaltending and call yourself a top 3 coach.

Bednar won a Cup last season with.904 goaltending and in 20 games. One of those players are now on the Flames but apparently according to Sutter we have no skill so we must play along the boards and fire 45 low danger chances a game.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by zamler

Flames have the worst shooting % in the league that can't be a coaching problem.

I think it is a product of their coaching which puts a premium on shooting volume. Tossing the puck at the crest of the goalie’s jersey essentially a turnover. The team would be better off with strong offensive puck possession with a priority on moving the puck into high danger zones. Our shot total would go down but I think our shooting percentage would go up and we’d be more successful.

[InternationalVillager]

Lol @ Sutter supporters.
Lol @ Huberdeau haters.

Guy has literally been an offensive dynamo the last 6 years. I don't think he's the problem. I think the problem is the way he's been asked to play the game and the coach's systems.

His ice time has dropped from 19:25 to 16:52. The team invested $80M+ in this guy. I think the only way that Sutter gets fired is that they realize they need to pick one or the other. Much easier to take a loss on Sutter than on Huberdeau.

[zamler]

Sarcasm people.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

I think it is a product of their coaching which puts a premium on shooting volume. Tossing the puck at the crest of the goalie’s jersey essentially a turnover. The team would be better off with strong offensive puck possession with a priority on moving the puck into high danger zones. Our shot total would go down but I think our shooting percentage would go up and we’d be more successful.

I think corsi for a team like us doesn't paint a real picture of puck possession. It's off our stick in a hurry like you said into the goalies crest from crappy angles.

When I think of puck possession I think of a team like Detroit who held the puck and put a premium on keeping it in their sticks and creating chances in high danger areas. Keeping it when goimg for a change and not just rimming it around the boards with a turnover.

We aren't holding pucks long enough and allowing our skilled players to make skilled plays and taking chances. Team is coached to play it safe and just fire it on net hoping something squeaks in and hold on to win 2-1. That's pretty much Darryl Sutter hockey and it doesn't work now because of the speed and skill in the league. You will give up chances and get scored on that's just the reality.

[Northendzone]

I feel like it is hard to disentangle all of this teams issues.

It is like everything has gone wrong.

I want this season to end so badly. To me the only thing that will spark me to watch a whole game again this year is calling up Wolf, and actually starting him for several games to let him have a real taste of life in the show

[TheKiprusoffResurrection]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread.

"The coach, the coach, its the coach, we need to fire another coach!!"

I mean sure, we probably do need a new one. Do I think Sutter has been good? Not really. Would I be sad or upset if he was let go? Not overly.

But with that being said, does ANYONE here really believe this team is a new coach away from contention? It's pretty clear to me we have much bigger problems then Sutter's line choices.

It's a poorly constructed team lacking top end talent. Full stop. In addition to that, the top end talent we do have has been ####ing the bed.

And more than anything else, if Sutter is fired I do NOT want BT hiring his replacement. BT is on his 5th coach. 9 seasons, 3 playoff round wins and if Sutter goes, 6 coaches? That would have to be some sort of record. A GM with no track record of success whatsoever hiring and firing 5 coaches during his tenure? That is ridiculous.

[gvitaly]

To everyone that thinks we should find a new coach, who would that coach be?

Quenville? Pretty sure he won't be coaching in the NHL again.
Vigneault? He doesn't have that great of a record in his last few stints
Tippet? He did great with EDM, oh wait...
Babcock? Seems like Peters 2.0, and lots of baggage
Tortz? Pretty sure he'll be NSH's GM
Green? Vancouver was pretty bad under him
Boudreau? He also looks like he's done after Van

Now a case can be made for Andrew Brunette, he did great taking over for Quenville in Florida, up until the playoffs.

Or will it be a rookie coach like Ryan Huska?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

You mean you want to see the best passer and best shooter play on the same line? No coach would do that (green text). I cannot understand why, on a team so hurting for offence/ struggling for wins, these combinations have not been even tried.

Huberdeau has played with Toffoli though. In fact, the line of Huberdeau- Lindholm-Toffoli is the second most common linemates Huberdeau has seen this season behind and they've been terrible for the 2 separate stints they were together.

Only Lucic-Kadri-Huberdeau have been together longer and as you can see from the image below (via DobberSports), they score 3 times less than when Lucic was with Huberdeau who evidently, everyone seemed to hate despite easily being the most successful line Huberdeau has played on this season.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Looking at it from a numbers perspective, are the Flames a bad team?

Actually, the Flames look like a powerhouse team with absolute garbage goaltending.

Dominant possession numbers. Comfortably “out-Corsi” every team in the league except Carolina.

And they’re not just peppering teams with low-quality shots. They generate above-average numbers of high-quality and medium-quality scoring chances too. On top of which they absolutely FLOOD other teams with low quality shots.

They have a low shooting percentage, but that’s not such a big deal when the Flames are doing all of the shooting.

They’re elite defensively.

Second fewest shots against in the NHL. And most of those shots against are muffins, because they’re a top-5 team at suppressing high and medium danger shots.

But they’re getting a sub-900 save % from both goalies. Bottom 5 in the league in most circumstances.

At even strength, with the game within a goal, the Flames have the 2nd worst sv% in the league.

When playing with a lead, league-average teams like Pittsburgh are posting a .914 sv%. Calgary’s goalies are posting a combined .875 sv%.

And again, it’s not because they’re facing more difficult shots than other teams. It’s because our starter has been awful and our backup has played like a backup.

I’m not saying Sutter is perfect or beyond reproach.

I’m saying that if the Flames put a 5 gallon bucket with a brick on top into the net, they’d be challenging for the division.

[zamler]

Taking the totality of posts I've come to the conclusion that no one is to blame and nothing can be done.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

To everyone that thinks we should find a new coach, who would that coach be?

Quenville? Pretty sure he won't be coaching in the NHL again.
Vigneault? He doesn't have that great of a record in his last few stints
Tippet? He did great with EDM, oh wait...
Babcock? Seems like Peters 2.0, and lots of baggage
Tortz? Pretty sure he'll be NSH's GM
Green? Vancouver was pretty bad under him
Boudreau? He also looks like he's done after Van

Now a case can be made for Andrew Brunette, he did great taking over for Quenville in Florida, up until the playoffs.

Or will it be a rookie coach like Ryan Huska?

No one that is in the Flames org right now. Rookie coach out of the Quebec system, fresh face, new blood.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Or pray you sneak and and just ride hot goaltending and call yourself a top 3 coach.

Bednar won a Cup last season with.904 goaltending and in 20 games. One of those players are now on the Flames but apparently according to Sutter we have no skill so we must play along the boards and fire 45 low danger chances a game.

How was Jonathan Quick's .911 sv% in 2014 considered "hot goaltending?" Actually pretty paltry playoff numbers actually.

Also, Sutter lead an 8th seed to one of the most dominant runs in playoff history going 16-4 enroute to winning the 2012 Stanley Cup.

Think the guy might know a thing or 2 about what it takes to win in the playoffs.