Sutter is the problem

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Looking at it from a numbers perspective, are the Flames a bad team?

Actually, the Flames look like a powerhouse team with absolute garbage goaltending.

Dominant possession numbers. Comfortably “out-Corsi” every team in the league except Carolina.

And they’re not just peppering teams with low-quality shots. They generate above-average numbers of high-quality and medium-quality scoring chances too. On top of which they absolutely FLOOD other teams with low quality shots.

They have a low shooting percentage, but that’s not such a big deal when the Flames are doing all of the shooting.

They’re elite defensively.

Second fewest shots against in the NHL. And most of those shots against are muffins, because they’re a top-5 team at suppressing high and medium danger shots.

But they’re getting a sub-900 save % from both goalies. Bottom 5 in the league in most circumstances.

At even strength, with the game within a goal, the Flames have the 2nd worst sv% in the league.

When playing with a lead, league-average teams like Pittsburgh are posting a .914 sv%. Calgary’s goalies are posting a combined .875 sv%.

And again, it’s not because they’re facing more difficult shots than other teams. It’s because our starter has been awful and our backup has played like a backup.

I’m not saying Sutter is perfect or beyond reproach.

I’m saying that if the Flames put a 5 gallon bucket with a brick on top into the net, they’d be challenging for the division.

Duds like last night where the puck doesn't go in stick out when they are fighting for their playoff lives. Woulda been nice for the goaltending to show up for the whole season versus the last 20 games.

[zamler]

Powerhouse team with bad goaltending scores a ton of goals.

[Barnet Flame]

We’ve had a team that has been a tough follow now for over three decades. But for most of that time, we’ve had a rock that provided a good face for the franchise. Jarome Iginla was perhaps the most shining example.

Darryl Sutter is now the face of the franchise. And that is a complete ####ing travesty.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I can't agree with this. This storyline fans have been building up all season with Huberdeau sucks. Simple truth is , this is a square peg trying to get shoved into a round hole situation.

This isn't a James Neal situation. His game has never showed warning signs of slowing down and then all of a sudden he drops off the face of the earth?

It doesn't add up. Just doesn't.

How about going from 115 points (1.44 ppg) in the regular season to 5 points in the playoffs (0.5 ppg)?

I mean, what have we seen of him when he's played in tight checking, playoff style contests this season? He has typically wilted and has largely looked invisible. Conversely, what have we seen of him when the games are more wide open and high pace, he's been quite good and productive.

It's like his game is built for the wide open regular season games and not tight checking playoff style games. It's pretty much what I noticed from him when we acquired him and why I predicted he would struggle under Sutter.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

How was Jonathan Quick's .911 sv% in 2014 considered "hot goaltending?" Actually pretty paltry playoff numbers actually.

Also, Sutter lead an 8th seed to one of the most dominant runs in playoff history going 16-4 enroute to winning the 2012 Stanley Cup.

Think the guy might know a thing or 2 about what it takes to win in the playoffs.

What was Quick save % when they went 16-4?

You like to cherry pick stats just like how Sutter isn't a offensive black hole and can only produce one season.

Even a hall of famer like Iginla bad his numbers take a nose dive under Sutter. He will get his defensive metrics but skill comes to die with him.

[Strange Brew]

Frankly several of the players on this team are having very good seasons.

Those who aren't? Those happen to be three star players who signed massive retirement contracts in the off season, coming off career years. And the goaltenders.

The problems this season are beyond obvious. I guess blame coaching for how those guys have played if you'd like. I'd suggest the players themselves have a whole lot more to do with it.

[Ferarri]

I really am surprised with how a lot of the fan base has turned on Darryl. He certainly has not been without his faults this year, but all head coaches have their warts. No matter who the bench boss is, coaches tend to have players they favor and at times overplay. I don't like that Lucic gets so much time and far better options exist, but let's not pretend that other coaches don't do the same. We had similar problems with a coach giving minutes to guys like Brouwer and Neale. The reality is that a preference exist to play guys who might not be getting the job done for reasons fans don't understand. Perhaps Looch is a huge locker room presence and playing him keeps the room accountable or at least provides veteran leadership on how to win (I'm definitely not saying this is the right approach) but it happens.

This franchise has been ridiculous with the coaching carousel and especially in recent memory. To recap this is essentially how it played out:

Hartley - Great motivator. Very passionate about the city and fans and was able to get a lot out of a young group. Not a great X's and O's guy but was a former cup champ. Eventually players tuned him out because he was tough.

Gulutzan - Very player friendly coach, however, could not hold the group accountable. His famous stick swinging incident is proof that he tried to lay down the hammer but didn't have the authority or respect due to his soft nature. Ultimately was decided change was required.

Peters - Not a popular choice at the beginning but coached the team to first in the west and second in the league. Regressed in his second year (before the allegations came out) and fans wanted him fired. In the end his past cost him his job

Ward - Needed a player friendly coach again. Played some music that seemed to satisfy people and went on a win streak. After that it was all downhill and once again the bench boss was replaced.

Eventually we get Sutter and restore respectability and structure to our game (I'm not going to consider the Canadian division run he had as he came in late and didn't have a lot of time to work with the group). In his next full year he coaches the team to first in the pacific and many players achieve career years.

So here we are now where we had tremendous overhaul and a brand new core and the results aren't there. But look at this team, there is no superstars or game breakers and the goaltending has been horrid. The fact that we are even pushing for a playoff spot after these factors is actually kind of surprising. This team has good complimentary pieces but overall is average as a collection. It just isn't a championship caliber team and pointing the finger at the coach is ridiculous in my opinion. What else can he do? He's basically tried everything with Huberdeau to no avail. Given Markstrom several chances to figure it out and he hasn't. This doesn't fall solely on his shoulders given the poor makeup of the team.

So we want to do the ultimate Calgary Flames move and replace the coach AGAIN. What do people want from the head coach? It hasn't worked with several different types of bench bosses, from soft to strict. This is not a coaching problem. Even if we do fire him, what do you think the new guy is going to bring? People will say Bruce is an option but he was TERRIBLE in Vancouver. Sure he was popular with the players and fans, but the results were horrendous. Do we really want to settle for a someone so we can have a catchy catch phrase of "Bruce there it is."

It's getting silly at this point. Why replace a two time cup winner who just won coach of the year. It doesn't make sense. And then what, the new guys has similar and worse results so we call for his head in just over a season? This needs to stop. Stability is required at this position and it's embarrassing how this fan base always blames the coach. I really hope management has some sense and makes some player moves before recycling a hall of fame head coach so we can start the cycle all over again.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Funny part is Peters did what Sutter did with the same players last season in terms of lots of goals and career years and somehow Sutter is viewed as a God coach lol.

[Mathgod]

My view is that Sutter is a great coach and this is a very good roster. Unfortunately though, they just don't seem to be a great fit with one another.

Sutter's cup runs happened when he had a dominant power forward (Iginla, Kopitar), an elite dominant defenseman (Regher, Doughty) and a stud goalie (Kipper, Quick) at his disposal. Without those ingredients, it seems Sutter's system doesn't yield great results.

A roster constructed such as the current Flames are, may need a different type of playstyle (ie: east-west instead of just north-south) to bring the most out of its players.

Just my 2c.

[Inglewood Jack]

Sutter is a great coach when he has an elite forward, elite defenseman, and elite goalie in their primes, all playing to their maximum potential at the same time.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

My view is that Sutter is a great coach and this is a very good roster. Unfortunately though, they just don't seem to be a great fit with one another.

Sutter's cup runs happened when he had a dominant power forward (Iginla, Kopitar), an elite dominant defenseman (Regher, Doughty) and a stud goalie (Kipper, Quick) at his disposal. Without those ingredients, it seems Sutter's system doesn't yield great results.

A roster constructed such as the current Flames are, may need a different type of playstyle (ie: east-west instead of just north-south) to bring the most out of its players.

Just my 2c.

They would be getting caved in opening things up with the goaltending they received this year in my opinion . Every chance was ending up in the back of the net. The only thing keeping them close to a playoff spot was the fact they are the second best team at suppressing shots. Guys were still flubbing passes from Huberdeau so what would be the difference if they opened it up? I agree with Sutter that there is no game breaker on this team. The most Clutch player is Toffoli. Huberdeau does not seem Clutch at all in my viewings.

[Mathgod]

You don't go from one of the top NHL point producers of the past 4 years to suddenly an average 2nd line forward in one offseason. Huby is a lot more talented than his point total this season would suggest.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

You don't go from one of the top NHL point producers of the past 4 years to suddenly an average 2nd line forward in one offseason. Huby is a lot more talented than his point total this season would suggest.

Yeah fair enough but he doesn't seem like a Clutch player to me who elevates his game when it matters.

Do you feel that opening it up and getting more Huberdeau assists would make up the difference in Goals allowed when the goaltending was brutal?

Also who would be taking the passes that hasn't already been one of the same players flubbing his passes?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Yeah fair enough but he doesn't seem like a Clutch player to me who elevates his game when it matters.

Do you feel that opening it up and getting more Huberdeau assists would make up the difference in Goals allowed when the goaltending was brutal?

Also who would be taking the passes that hasn't already been one of the same players flubbing his passes?

We had almost as bad goaltending with Peters and won.

He also had the player playing on his off wing and with one of the biggest puck hogs I've seen.

Communication is key.

Here's a quote from Brad from the Sutter hiring thread does any of this apply to Sutter?

While he’s never been a coach himself, as a longtime executive, Calgary Flames general manager Brad Treliving has an interesting perspective on the job of a bench boss.

Speaking with Sportsnet 960 host Ryan Pinder at our 2020 Virtual Hockey Summit last September, Treliving outlined four things that he really values in a coach:

1. Authenticity
2. Ability to communicate
3. Ability to inspire
4. Accountability

“You can be the smartest coach and you can have the greatest system, and all those things, but if you can’t communicate effectively to your players, you’re not going to get very far,” Treliving said.

“We’re in the ‘why’ generation right now. The players now that you guys are coaching, they’re the smartest athletes that we’ve been around… They want to know why, they want to know how they’re going to get there. They want to know how you’re going to help them get there.”

“But you need to inspire, you need to have leadership and light that engine in them.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

We had almost as bad goaltending with Peters and won.

Key word is almost. We also had Johnny and Matthew. Who both also had career years with Sutter last year!

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Key word is almost. We also had Johnny and Matthew. Who both also had career years with Sutter last year!

They also had career years that year as well with Monny and Lindholm.

So how you do you get by awful goaltending? You just have to score more to win.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

They also had career years that year as well with Monny and Lindholm.

So how you do you get by awful goaltending? You just have to score more to win.

So they had two career years? I thought career was you know, their best year?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Funny part is Peters did what Sutter did with the same players last season in terms of lots of goals and career years and somehow Sutter is viewed as a God coach lol.

LOL. Almost like one season doesn't define either of them.

And yet even in that one season, Peters won one playoff game. Sutter 5.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

LOL. Almost like one season doesn't define either of them.

And yet even in that one season, Peters won one playoff game. Sutter 5.

And Smith was arguably their best player that playoffs with Peters.

Markstrom was unarguably the worst player last series against the Oilers.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

So they had two career years? I thought career was you know, their best year?

It was career years by large margins up until that point.

So it's not like Sutter magically got more out of them.

The point stands that it was Darryl's best regular season getting offensive stats and numbers.

He has killed skill for his team and the opposition his entire career. Hockey Hall of famer Jarome Iginla had 73 points under him and 67 when the nhl went to a more open style.