[PGT] Flames 0 - Wild 3

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by TheChief

I just find it funny that we have the best coach we have had in decades and everyone has turned on him.


Yes was it a bad game? Sure. You cant tell me they have quit on him when they put up the performance they did against Boston, and really for the greater part of the season. The team hasn't had puck luck and has been soured by goaltending all year.





Obviously Sutter wants to win, and the next 20 games are going to go against everything he wants...He wont be happy at all. The players are no doubt dissapointed aswell. You ride out the season and let Sutter give them their offseason plans. You CANNOT fire this coach. The GM on the other hand...

That just means that Flames have done an awful job at hiring coaches.

[Royle9]

I think it’s safe to say it’s not just 1 thing that’s wrong with this team.

Huberdeau has underperformed there’s no question, but the guy didn’t forget how to play hockey in Calgary, and no he didn’t “get paid” and stop caring that’s just a witch hunt mentality.

His usage is poor, his line mates have been wrong and that’s on the coach. He needs to be put back with Lindholm and taken off of Kadris line as they play opposite styles of zone entry and line efficiency.

He’s not put in a position to succeed, he’s been fine in Florida for 5+ years and then all of a sudden has to change his style of play and what makes him effective to fit Daryl’s questionable system. It’s okay to have defensive and offensive lines, we don’t need every line to be focused 100% on suppression. Geez I wonder why we can’t score??

Goaltending has been awful, that’s their own fault and one point you can’t argue.
It killed this team this year, but we’ve got nobody that can put the team on their back and pull everyone into the fight anymore. Our goalies costly poor goals has clearly played a role in the mental game of our team.


Daryl is old, stubborn and clearly lost.
He relies on 4 lines far too much and has too much love for old grizzled vets because he places far too much emphasis on “guys who won it before”

He doesn’t play his top guys enough, he doesn’t adapt lines as the game goes on he simply starts playing his 3rd and 4th line more if the top 6 aren’t scoring which isn’t working.

Theres very clearly a rift between the coach and the room or the coach and the top players dating back to the first few months right around the time he felt the need to publicly throw the teams highest paid player under the bus in the media. Wether it was right or wrong it should have been handled differently.

This team is playing uninspiring, low hockey IQ, perimeter offence and it’s the worst product we’ve seen in years. But at no point have we adjusted lines drastically, put our top 6 out enough nor adjusted on the fly.

It’s the coaches responsibility to have his team ready, to adjust the game plan when it’s not working and to roll the lines appropriately. Daryl isn’t doing this and hasn’t almost all season, but he’s sure good at deflecting that in the media.
As a fan it hurts, because once again this team should be better than they’ve been, we botched our rebuild window this summer and now we’re back to mediocrity without any real plan or resolution because we tried to re-tool and extend a window we really didn’t have.

Hurts to pay to watch this.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Nurse contract is worse.

Is it? I hate Nurse with the burning passions of a million suns but for what he "contributes" to his team vs. what our guy contributes I would have to say we are getting the worse price per pound of output. And one of the contracts hasn't even started. Not good.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TheChief

I just find it funny that we have the best coach we have had in decades and everyone has turned on him.


Yes was it a bad game? Sure. You cant tell me they have quit on him when they put up the performance they did against Boston, and really for the greater part of the season. The team hasn't had puck luck and has been soured by goaltending all year.





Obviously Sutter wants to win, and the next 20 games are going to go against everything he wants...He wont be happy at all. The players are no doubt disappointed as well. You ride out the season and let Sutter give them their off season plans. You CANNOT fire this coach. The GM on the other hand...

People want to fire him because notwithstanding that he was been presented what everyone thought was a pretty stacked roster, he has coached his way to well below average results.

The GM, on the other had, presented the coach with what everyone felt was a stack roster.

Plus, firing the GM does not give the team generally any immediate results. And if Trev is fired, expect Sutter to take over, whether they hire a "puppet front man" like Conroy or not.

You want to really see a lost team, let the above play out.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Joborule

The fire Sutter crowd.

With having 5 coaches in the past nine(?) years, we're overdue in changing the man behind the bench.

Coaches can only last in this city for two seasons before fans want them out the door.

Nevermind that Sutter is the first coach with actual pedigree behind the bench since Hartley. He's a future Hall of Famer, and JUST won the Jack Adams last season.

But he doesn't know how to coach anymore according to the crowd that wants him gone.

Don't get it twisted, I think criticism of him is fair since he has done some things I haven't agreed with this season. The team is having a dreadful season, do of course it starts with him.

But I recognize that the top players haven't been playing anywhere where they need to for the team to be successful. The way they've underperformed on ice I don't see as coaching tactics issues. They're execution and focus deficiency.

I also think that the makeup of the roster is inadequate for goal production both offensively and defensively. The loss of the two players who left last season, and Kylington absence hasn't been replaced.

I'm placing the primary blame on the top players - Markstrom included - and Treliving for building this team.

Ok so who said they want the inmates to run the asylum? Which member of the fire Sutter crowd said that?

But then you say criticism of him is fair but only on the things you don’t agree with him on.

Fact of the matter is, if he’s such an elite coach, then he deserves all the criticism he gets. So do the players. These things aren’t mutually exclusive.

Sutter has made horrendous personnel decisions and the players haven’t executed. And when the players haven’t responded, Sutter hasn’t adapted.

And sure, blame the GM too.

[Northendzone]

I really feel like last year everything went right for the flames. Limited injuries during the regular season, guys having career type years.- until they played the oilers anyways.

This year, nothing is going right. Guys having terrible years. Leading the league in hit posts. All seemingly exacerbated by a coach who is stubborn with respect to his lines.

Hopefully next year can be a bounce back year for everyone.

Kind of crappy that in a say $150 million dollar a year business you rely so much on luck

[Robbob]

Someone mentioned it but that game was game 7 vs the ducks reincarnated.

This team up front is just slotted wrong and nothing has clicked all year. Help us lotto balls, you are our only hope.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Ok so who said they want the inmates to run the asylum? Which member of the fire Sutter crowd said that?

But then you say criticism of him is fair but only on the things you don’t agree with him on.

Fact of the matter is, if he’s such an elite coach, then he deserves all the criticism he gets. So do the players. These things aren’t mutually exclusive.

Sutter has made horrendous personnel decisions and the players haven’t executed. And when the players haven’t responded, Sutter hasn’t adapted.

And sure, blame the GM too.

Elite coaches do not get criticized because everyone knows they are elite. And they are not expected to win either. They are expected to be appreciated for even coaching your team, results are secondary.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If it was a small handful of players having a poor season that would be one thing but it's most of the team. Hard not to look at the coach. It's clear Sutter can coach but it's his stubbornness and gruff personality that starts grinding on players as it's why he has a shorter shelf life.

Except it’s the opposite. Most guys are having good seasons, some are even on track to have one of the best seasons of their career.

That’s why it’s hard to take the Sutter criticism too seriously when it seems to have blinders on. He’s doing a lot of good for a lot of players, but he can’t will the goaltenders to be average every night, and he has tried Huberdeau with every player but Dube at this point.

Lindholm, Toffoli, Mangiapane, Backlund, and Kadri all played better without him than with him. What’s Sutter supposed to do with that? You pair him with Lucic and Lewis where he’s not going to be a drain on their production and people are going to complain that Sutter is making him play with 4th liners like they did last time.

I think people are struggling to cope with the fact that we might have 8 years left of a $10M lemon and are looking at any reason they can to blame everyone but the player.

[NewFan]

I didn't like Sutter's lineups and players usages during the games.
But more disappointed how those top players performing on the ice. Bad decisions, can't complete simple passes, low IQ players, can't cover opposition players, falling, panicking, shooting wide or right to the D. Especially Huber, Kadri and Hanifin and Markstrom. I think only Pelletier completed a few passes last game. I think most problem is from the players.

[FBI]

Gaudreau’s last second decision to not sign sent this team into the darkest timeline.
- lose our best player
- lose our second best player (likely due to losing our best player)
- scramble and make trades and sign players that looked good on paper but instead will hamper the team for a decade
- team underperforms
- can’t make mind up at trade deadline so don’t do anything
- don’t even provide us some hope for futures and picks
- miss playoffs, draft 10-15
- riff between players and coach
- players quit

Wtf. This season sucks. Hope is low.

[Southside]

That was awful. As a long time season ticket holder that attends all but perhaps a handful of games each season that game ranks among the worst. Just nothing to cheer last night at all. No physicality, no scoring, only 1 great chance to score. I left after the 3rd goal, so good on those of you that stayed to boo them off the ice.

[Phil Russell]

Again, it doesn't really matter whether you think the players or the coach are more to blame. What matters is how you fix it. And right now, trading all of the underachieving players is not possible. You can whine about it being a mistake that the players were brought in and place blame there, or you can blame the players and believe that they suddenly don't care or have lost their skills, and there is a possibility that you are right. I personally don't think so, but none of us know for sure. But if you take that position then there is no fix.

When the pieces of the system can't be replaced, the only solution is to change the system like it or not.

[Ashasx]

While I don't think I'm on the fire Sutter brigade, I think he is a very good coach that has unfortunately worn out his welcome. And this isn't the same team that has had 5 coaches in the last 8 years. This isn't Gaudreau/Tkachuk/Giordano's team anymore.

Did this organization not make an effort to bring in high-character, proven winners? When people say inmates would be running the asylum, are they referring to players like Coleman, Toffoli, and Kadri? I mean, Tanev to be honest looks like the most miserable player on the team, and I think everybody would call him an unbelievable teammate.

Something isn't right here. The team made an effort to bring in character guys and we are saying the fault is on the character of the team?

Sometimes a coach doesn't mesh.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Most of the other guys are doing (at worst) fine under Sutter. Some are doing well.

Gaudreau and Tkachuk “overcame” the hardship of having Sutter as a coach (Gaudreau produced far more under him, Tkachuk is just 10 points ahead of where he was last year).

Why is it Sutter’s fault that Huberdeau sucks? Why is the assumption that he’s a prick who doesn’t motivate him and not that Huberdeau just… sucks?

He’s going to be paid $10M. They should be able to put a literal donkey behind the bench and Huberdeau should put up 80 points. He’s a professional, no? This is his job.

Ice time does matter for offensive players - you get more, you get more into the game (up to a point).

The 3rd and 4th liners are getting as much as they are used to (if not more) and they're doing fine. The guys struggling are the offensive guys: Huberdeau, Lindholm, Mangiapane, and Kadri

There are a lot of reasons for it, but I think ice-time deployment is definitely one of them.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Personally I'm still on the fence about it, I'm not in the room so how could I possibly know anything. As a fan what can I do, and it's not like this is a discussion board to discuss things.

[GioforPM]

It’s sometimes hard to believe there are 5 guys on the team with cup wings, some of them multiple winners.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Ice time does matter for offensive players - you get more, you get more into the game (up to a point).

The 3rd and 4th liners are getting as much as they are used to (if not more) and they're doing fine. The guys struggling are the offensive guys: Huberdeau, Lindholm, Mangiapane, and Kadri

There are a lot of reasons for it, but I think ice-time deployment is definitely one of them.

Especially for creative guys like Huberdeau. They need lots of touches because not everything works out that they try. Huberdeau’s best sequences seem to come in sustained offensive zone control. Kadri is a one and done player. He’s not bad at it but he likes to skate in, take a shot, and then that’s it.

[Toonage]

Apropos of nothing, if you expect to see kids brought up or a team icing a less than competitive roster down the stretch for a better draft pick prepare for disappointment. I recall 2021 where Sutter iced his best lineup to the bitter end, hurting their draft position.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Ok so who said they want the inmates to run the asylum? Which member of the fire Sutter crowd said that?

That's what's your saying when you want the coach fired and have the roster be under a different coach. The players are not the problem, it's the coach. Bring in a different coach, and the players will play better. That's the idea no?

Surely it will work for the billionth time.