[Trade] NSH trades Jeannot to TB for Cal Foote, 2025 1st, 2024 2nd, 2023 3rd, 4th, 5th

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Coleman has four years left so that deal's going to be hard to move. Not impossible but I'm not sure there would be much in the way of assets coming back.

Maybe something around Coleman for Marchment?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Like, say, Horvat? Or Tarasenko? This seems like a bigger return than either of those players got and they would contribute to winning a lot more than Tanner freaking Jeannot.

I don’t know TB seems to know how to win . I’ll trust them

Unlike Calgary who likes to make the splashy acquisition , TB seems to have a plan and get players that fit that plan

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Lol, you don't know the players a GM wants for a cup run.

I’m the hypothetical situation laid out, would there be a GM who wants a Lucic for a $1.3 million cap hit, with only $250k remaining of actual salary, expiring contract?

Veteran, Cup winning muscle.

It’s not at all outrageous that a GM would want that.

EDIT: in this scenario, it’s not even $250k that the team would be paying in actual dollars, it’s only a quarter of that. So about $62,500.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Yeah the lightning were in cap crunch, and McDonagh was the casualty.

If I recall, I believe he was threated by Brisebois with waivers (NTC not NMC). With reverse standings order from the previous season, he'd likely end up in a less than desirable location -- thus he relaxed his NTC for the Preds.

It may have been a conversation to find an 'ideal' fit, or a fire sale, thus the return was poor.

For sure, and it was a really hard market to move any kind of cap+term. Just interesting that it's the same dance partners.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Like, say, Horvat? Or Tarasenko? This seems like a bigger return than either of those players got and they would contribute to winning a lot more than Tanner freaking Jeannot.

For like 3 months and at the expense of someone else on the roster. Jeannot is an RFA and they must believe they can re-sign him or flip for something similar at a low AAV. Long-term I think they see the need to replace Maroon/Perry.

There's also the question of fit. Is deploying a first-line winger who is used to lots of TOI further down the depth chart guaranteed to work better?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I don’t know TB seems to know how to win . I’ll trust them

Unlike Calgary who likes to make the splashy acquisition , TB seems to have a plan and get players that fit that plan

TB started with Stamkos, Kucherov, Vasilevsky, Hedman and found money in Point.

I think Treliving always has a plan and ideas of what players fit it. The players needed were just more expensive because Calgary didn't draft in those positions ever, and once those players were acquired they haven't panned out.

Hamonic, Neal, Markstrom (and every other goalie) and Kadri were all acquired to fill a specific and obvious hole in the Flames' roster. They haven't panned out (well, Markstrom did for a year).

[Northendzone]

geez, is there ever going to be a trade deadline where tampa is not active in adding a part or three that they seemingly need?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

TB started with Stamkos, Kucherov, Vasilevsky, Hedman and found money in Point.

I think Treliving always has a plan and ideas of what players fit it. The players needed were just more expensive because Calgary didn't draft in those positions ever, and once those players were acquired they haven't panned out.

Hamonic, Neal, Markstrom (and every other goalie) and Kadri were all acquired to fill a specific and obvious hole in the Flames' roster. They haven't panned out (well, Markstrom did for a year).

Signing the splashyist free agent every year isn’t a plan

Heck he even did it with Coleman and being in on Hyman at the same time

The Flames could have traded the first they traded to dump Monahan (I know at the time they didn’t have this pick ) for a younger , more cost controlled Coleman (like TB does ), and then not needed to spend the 1st to dump Monahan instead of signing Coleman (who I actually like as a player - he’s just too expensive for too long)

They would also then have a young cost controlled player, or a RFA this year , Monahan off the cap , and not another 4 years of Coleman in what will most likely be declining years and a decent cap hit

But that’s the different in the two organizations. The Flames always chased the new shiny object under BT.

Now does it help having a core - of course it does - but the Flames wasted so much cap and picks chasing core complement in players without addressing the need for more star power.

The Hamilton deal (and then trading Hamilton) are deals I like . Identify young potential stars

Overpaying FAs and shedding picks for support players past their prime hasn’t worked , and isn’t a good strategy .

Overpaying in picks for a young , cost controlled player like TB likes to do has worked out better

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Signing the splashyist free agent every year isn’t a plan

Heck he even did it with Coleman and being in on Hyman at the same time

The Flames could have traded the first they traded to dump Monahan (I know at the time they didn’t have this pick ) for a younger , more cost controlled Coleman (like TB does ), and then not needed to spend the 1st to dump Monahan instead of signing Coleman (who I actually like as a player - he’s just too expensive for too long)

They would also then have a young cost controlled player, or a RFA this year , Monahan off the cap , and not another 4 years of Coleman in what will most likely be declining years and a decent cap hit

But that’s the different in the two organizations. The Flames always chased the new shiny object under BT.

He didn't sign Neal, Markstrom or Hamonic (who wasn't a UFA) because they were the flashiest target out there. Hell, in each of those years they weren't. In 2018 (Neal) Tavares was a UFA. In 2020 (Markstrom and Tanev) Pietrangelo, Krug, Hall were out there. In 2017 (when Hanifin was acquired) Panarin, Duchene, Schenn were all traded, Radulov, Marleau, Kuznetsov were all signed.

He signed Neal because he thought he had a real find in Gaudreau-Monahan and wanted a sure scorer with size on the right side. He got Hamonic because he flat a need for a defensive RHS to play with Brodie if he was going to play Hamilton with Gio. And he got Markstrom because the Flames need since Kipper has been a true top goalie, and this was supposed to be Markstrom.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But that’s the different in the two organizations. The Flames always chased the new shiny object under BT.

No. The actual difference is:

TB started with Stamkos, Kucherov, Vasilevsky, Hedman and found money in Point.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

No. The actual difference is:

Right. When you have drafted stars you can then go and get depth in UFA. when you're drafting in depth position, you have those guys but then you need to acquire stars elsewhere. Especially when the stars you do draft don't want to stick around.

Treliving is sqandering a lot less of an opportunity than when the Flames had a elite forward (like top 3 winger), elite goalie and top shutdown Dman in the league.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I don’t know TB seems to know how to win . I’ll trust them

Unlike Calgary who likes to make the splashy acquisition , TB seems to have a plan and get players that fit that plan

Slightly easier in Tampa

Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Fox, Stone ect. If Calgary was a more desirable market. Not to mention the better contracts for players you do manage to keep.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Slightly easier in Tampa

Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Fox, Stone ect. If Calgary was a more desirable market. Not to mention the better contracts for players you do manage to keep.

But these things are known. The Flames need to operate knowing these things. Lot of other small market teams have no problem having success. Basically unless you are in Alberta, Phoenix, or Buffalo (who looks like they may have finally turned a corner) you seem to figure it out. (And even the Oilers made a conference finals by smoking the Flames and will be in the Playoffs this year)

If you are going to have trouble signing elite FA's (or any) without overpaying why continue to do so? If you are going to struggle to keep your stars you better lock them up early and take a chance they continue to develop like every other team is doing nowadays.

The Flames strategy has not worked at all in the cap ERA for this team. Yet here we are, continueing to do the same thing.

This franchise is one of the worst over the past 20 years (cap years) success wise. And now look at our situation- Maxed to the Cap, with a lot of our best performing players contracts expiring the year after next, sitting outside the playoffs, with a depleted farm system.

And yet some people will always find an excuse why it isn't the GM's fault, the teams fault or the players fault.

This team's window was this year and next before they are too old and get even more expensive. And we're sitting outside of the playoffs in one of the weakest conference in memory.

The construction of this roster considering the age and cost is nothing short of a disaster. And after next year it will get considerable worst baring someone (Or 2) from the farm to become stars.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

I can’t comprehend this. Why didn’t Tampa trade for someone better if that’s what they were willing to pay?

Someone better makes>$800000. JBB didn't have enough cap space for a high priced forward!

[trackercowe]

The Oilers lucked into McDavid and Draisitl to a lesser extent. Let's not give them any credit here. There's really only one reason to explain the "success" they've had. Making the conference finals had very little to do with actual team building.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

The Oilers lucked into McDavid and Draisitl to a lesser extent. Let's not give them any credit here. There's really only one reason to explain the "success" they've had. Making the conference finals had very little to do with actual team building.

Yeah. It had nothing to do with it

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But these things are known. The Flames need to operate knowing these things. Lot of other small market teams have no problem having success. Basically unless you are in Alberta, Phoenix, or Buffalo (who looks like they may have finally turned a corner) you seem to figure it out. (And even the Oilers made a conference finals by smoking the Flames and will be in the Playoffs this year)

If you are going to have trouble signing elite FA's (or any) without overpaying why continue to do so? If you are going to struggle to keep your stars you better lock them up early and take a chance they continue to develop like every other team is doing nowadays.

The Flames strategy has not worked at all in the cap ERA for this team. Yet here we are, continueing to do the same thing.

This franchise is one of the worst over the past 20 years (cap years) success wise. And now look at our situation- Maxed to the Cap, with a lot of our best performing players contracts expiring the year after next, sitting outside the playoffs, with a depleted farm system.

And yet some people will always find an excuse why it isn't the GM's fault, the teams fault or the players fault.

This team's window was this year and next before they are too old and get even more expensive. And we're sitting outside of the playoffs in one of the weakest conference in memory.

The construction of this roster considering the age and cost is nothing short of a disaster. And after next year it will get considerable worst baring someone (Or 2) from the farm to become stars.

The Oilers lol and people thanked this?

4 lottery wins including McDavid...so shrewd

They made the conference finals beating the Kings without Doughty and the Flames with a shooter tutor in net and then got swept wow.

YOUR example was Tampa which is one of the easiest markets to run a team in the league. BT would clean up in a market like that IMO.

[Mr.Coffee]

The Flames need to be drafting and signing western Canadians, who have family within the region. Not Coronatos and building a team around all the Americans, who don’t want to be in Calgary and if push comes to shove won’t be. There is a reasonably high chance Coranato doesn’t sign here… how bad will that look? Time to shift to western Canadian kids who have some semblance of Calgary and what it’s about.

Furthermore, I’m not really interested in cheering for exclusively mercenaries anyway.

[Bongsong]

This is redonkulouss

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The Flames need to be drafting and signing western Canadians, who have family within the region. Not Coronatos and building a team around all the Americans, who don’t want to be in Calgary and if push comes to shove won’t be. There is a reasonably high chance Coranato doesn’t sign here… how bad will that look? Time to shift to western Canadian kids who have some semblance of Calgary and what it’s about.

Furthermore, I’m not really interested in cheering for exclusively mercenaries anyway.

The problem is you limit your talent pool and more likely end up with Kris Chucko type….Sutter did that before

They can just avoid Americans going to college especially Ivy leagues.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The Flames need to be drafting and signing western Canadians, who have family within the region. Not Coronatos and building a team around all the Americans, who don’t want to be in Calgary and if push comes to shove won’t be. There is a reasonably high chance Coranato doesn’t sign here… how bad will that look? Time to shift to western Canadian kids who have some semblance of Calgary and what it’s about.

Furthermore, I’m not really interested in cheering for exclusively mercenaries anyway.

Jets have managed to keep their American players in Konnor and Hellebuyck but they were aggressive signing them to long term deals ensuring they didn't get to free agency. The issue with Tkachuk is the Flames let him have a bridge deal which fast tracked him to free agency. If Corontato shows well in the NHL I would hope the Flames are much more aggressive signing him to an 8 year deal when he's an RFA.