[News] CSEC and City of Calgary agree to restart formal discussions on new arena

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

I specifically wanted to list what the distances are.

Why do blue line passengers have to transfer trains to go to the Saddledome? If you are on blue line you'd walk the 7-8 mins to/from City Hall and not 4 mins to/from the red line and then add in a transfer downtown.

Anytime I go to the Saddledome I use the free fare zone to get to the east end of downtown and walk the rest of the way from City Hall station. It's quick and would be even quicker to the new arena.

It would be even better 2 blocks further north. It's a rare opportunity to build something so big along the heavy rail tracks. Moves it slightly further out of Stampede's orbit and closer to a couple CPA parkades, which is better for us as taxpayers.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Bow Trail isn't a city wide transportation route. It serves the same people best served by transit. Nobody should be taking Bow Trail to go to the arena in the West Village. Crowchild similarly is best used by people who already have the best transit access. These roads being the major transportation points would mostly serve to take more people off transit use, which is extremely undesirable.

If people are driving to the arena, where are they going to park? Is the rest of the West Village not going to be developed and just stay surface lots? If the justifications for an arena in the West Village are 'its easier to drive to' then it's a project that isn't in the best interest of the area.

Thanks Roughneck; points definitely taken, but I'll respectfully disagree; Bow Trail and Crowchild Trail immediately next to an arena provides better driving options than the current location, in which you're shoehorned in for quite a while (driving from the Saddledome has always been horrendous). Bow Trail/9th is a major throroughfare to other arteries in Calgary, as is Crowchild, and they connect into all directions through the city. Admittedly, civil infrastructure would have to be majorly renovated in any WV concept to accommodate this. The transit routes are where the WV is limited; it only has direct access to the Blue Line, and annoying walking distance to the other lines.

As for parking, I'm not sure, I'm not the designer. I would assume the CSEC would like full access to parking revenue; could see a potential design include a parkade option, either underground or above ground.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well, this is all based around your walking experience, which is fine, but it's not for everybody and it never will be. When it's cold and snowy out, especially during an NHL season, people will take the train because it means heated shelters and transportation instead of walking. I'm not sure calling the general population 'stupid' compared to you is a very valuable addition to the conversation either.

Now you have to be intentionally being obtuse. What is "my walking experience" and how is it relevant to 1.5 million people? A distance is a distance.

The fact is the Vic Park arena is 150m/400m/750m to all three lines. That is infinitely better than WV at 100m/1400m/2300m to all three lines.

Vic Park gives you options. Want to switch to shorten your 750 to 400, it's a choice not a requirement. That's not the issue. The issue is the WV option forces people to switch lines. A lot of them. Guess what happens then, the blue line trains are packed trying to fit three lines of capacity into one. Enjoy standing on 7th Ave waiting for the next train.

Originally Posted by Muta

Rounding up is fine, you can do what you want. It's your argument. However I'm using actual reference points from previous design work, but if that annoys you, feel free to move on. As well, some advice - if someone disagrees with you, you can respond in polite and civil discourse. You don't have to go to instant 'I'm offended and need to rage' mode. Would be nice if the integrity of your posts could rise above that.

Since I don't have a crystal ball and the hypothetical CalgaryNext MSpaint handy I can't do a precise measure from the platform to the closest entrance to the arena section so 110, 120, 132, or even 109.1 would be a best guess. I'll take your word for it that it's not 150 then. That 30 seconds I save will let me catch more of the anthem(s)!

If someone points something factual out that you don't want to take into consideration you don't have to get in a twist. The fact you instantly read posts as 'rage mode' explains to me it's a you problem and not a me problem.

All I did was outline walking distances between VP vs WV and the three lines.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Now you have to be intentionally being obtuse. What is "my walking experience" and how is it relevant to 1.5 million people? A distance is a distance.

The fact is the Vic Park arena is 150m/400m/750m to all three lines. That is infinitely better than WV at 100m/1400m/2300m to all three lines.

Vic Park gives you options. Want to switch to shorten your 750 to 400, it's a choice not a requirement. That's not the issue. The issue is the WV option forces people to switch lines. A lot of them. Guess what happens then, the blue line trains are packed trying to fit three lines of capacity into one. Enjoy standing on 7th Ave waiting for the next train.

Intentionally obtuse? Seriously? You said you walk from City Hall, and then decided to call the general population stupid in some sort of comparison to support your argument about distances. Do I really need to quote that post again?

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Since I don't have a crystal ball and the hypothetical CalgaryNext MSpaint handy I can't do a precise measure from the platform to the closest entrance to the arena section so 110, 120, 132, or even 109.1 would be a best guess. I'll take your word for it that it's not 150 then. That 30 seconds I save will let me catch more of the anthem(s)!

If someone points something factual out that you don't want to take into consideration you don't have to get in a twist. The fact you instantly read posts as 'rage mode' explains to me it's a you problem and not a me problem.

All I did was outline walking distances between VP vs WV and the three lines.

Lol, you just can't help yourself, can you?

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Muta

Intentionally obtuse? Seriously? You said you walk from City Hall, and then decided to call the general population stupid in some sort of comparison to support your argument about distances. Do I really need to quote that post again?



Lol, you just can't help yourself, can you?

What a riot! You're trying too hard to make this complicated.

I generally notice that a good majority of the attendance to the Saddledome is physically able to walk 200m around half of the concourse, plus a ton of steps to their seat. Pretty sure people could easily walk 800m more if they didn't want to do the train switch.

Yes I personally think it's stupid that:
1200m walk is too much
vs
Platform waiting time + 400m walk
It's eight extra bloody minutes of walking. It's one lap of the Saddledome concourse.

[Reggie Dunlop]

My read is that the West Village gambit is just more posturing by CSEC. Putting on my tinfoil hat, maybe they want a bigger piece of the Stampede Park action.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

What a riot! You're trying too hard to make this complicated.

I generally notice that a good majority of the attendance to the Saddledome is physically able to walk 200m around half of the concourse, plus a ton of steps to their seat. Pretty sure people could easily walk 350m more if they didn't want to do the train switch. But yet, it could be less than the red line in the future.

Yes I personally think it's stupid that:
800m walk is too much
vs
Platform waiting time + 400m walk
It's four extra bloody minutes of walking. It's one lap of the Saddledome concourse.

Oh, the irony...

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Muta

Oh, the irony...

You could discuss the facts without your obvious bias.

I get it. You live on the west side. You don't take transit. You drive to games. You've been involved in CalgaryNext.

You're not evaluating it with the perspective of what's best for all citizens. You're evaluating it based on what's best for owners and the wealthy.

The majority disliked CalgaryNext for all the significant reasons that still exist.

Luckily it looks like we have another decade to rehash this. So get comfortable.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I went to B-P for a half year in grade 2 or 3. About 40 years before you probably.

Doubtful...unless you're 80.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

You could discuss the facts without your obvious bias.

I get it. You live on the west side. You don't take transit. You drive to games. You've been involved in CalgaryNext.

You're not evaluating it with the perspective of what's best for all citizens. You're evaluating it based on what's best for owners and the wealthy.

Interesting. You're 100% sure about all of this?

[flambers]

I would think they will keep it at the same location, as they have permits/designs already in place

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Scooter

Someone please tell me they are not still talking about the West Village as a potential site for the new arena! That idea should have been buried with KK.

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

You may (or may not) be aware that there are some relatives of KK on this board. Post whatever you want but a little tact might go a long ways.

You guys are aware Scooter is Eric Francis right? Tact is something he's never had

[GioforPM]

Until I got tix with a parking pass I generally walked from City Hall (or work). And it’s not 7-8 minutes. Plus City Hall is a baaaaaaad station.

I’d estimate the distance from the 7th St station on the red line to the WV location is right around the same distance as from City Hall to the new EV location.

Parking, yeah probably less, and that ain’t necessarily bad. I’ve been to NFL and MLB games with limited parking, and it’s pretty efficient even with those crowds.

To me, EV was Nenshi’s baby and that’s fine. He used his leverage to drive it there. WV was CSEC’s desire and they blew it. Or it was never happening. I don’t think there’s much to choose between the two, except I hoped it would solve the west side eyesore.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

You guys are aware Scooter is Eric Francis right? Tact is something he's never had

Is he actually though? I remember it being asked a while back after another scooter drive by and no one ever really confirmed it. I mean the being a dink thing seems accurate enough but it seems like it could be a shtick too.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Until I got tix with a parking pass I generally walked from City Hall (or work). And it’s not 7-8 minutes. Plus City Hall is a baaaaaaad station.

I’d estimate the distance from the 7th St station on the red line to the WV location is right around the same distance as from City Hall to the new EV location.

Parking, yeah probably less, and that ain’t necessarily bad. I’ve been to NFL and MLB games with limited parking, and it’s pretty efficient even with those crowds.

To me, EV was Nenshi’s baby and that’s fine. He used his leverage to drive it there. WV was CSEC’s desire and they blew it. Or it was never happening. I don’t think there’s much to choose between the two, except I hoped it would solve the west side eyesore.

It’s 7-8 minutes more than Stampede station which would cut down to 3-4 more to the new arena.

I listed the distances.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by paperbagger'14

is he actually though? I remember it being asked a while back after another scooter drive by and no one ever really confirmed it. I mean the being a dink thing seems accurate enough but it seems like it could be a shtick too.

100%

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

It’s 7-8 minutes more than Stampede station which would cut down to 3-4 more to the new arena.

I listed the distances.

I know what you listed. I’ve also walked each way.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I know what you listed. I’ve also walked each way.

I guess people have different walking speeds.

If you know what I listed then you’d know the distance from 7th to WV is not the same as City Hall to the new “EV” location.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

To me, EV was Nenshi’s baby and that’s fine. He used his leverage to drive it there. WV was CSEC’s desire and they blew it. Or it was never happening. I don’t think there’s much to choose between the two, except I hoped it would solve the west side eyesore.

EV was definitely not Nenshi’s baby.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

EV was definitely not Nenshi’s baby.

He pushed EV hard. Not the arena - the area. The arena isn’t really in the EV proper.