Too early to panic about Markstrom

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Maybe if you could read.... I said i haven't watched many full games the past 25. I PVR them and watch it in about an hour.

But even then how do you discount the fact our goalie is on a 13 game point streak and on a 5 game winning streak? but go ahead. Defend away.

I can read, I just don’t like reading your posts so I skim them. Kind of like the reading version of watching a game in an hour.

I’m not discounting anything. It is what it is which is an impressive stat line. He’s won some of those games with outright bad (Markstrom level, even) goaltending. But hey, if you think he’s never going to lose again, by all means, throw him in and let’s get us our second cup.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I can read, I just don’t like reading your posts so I skim them. Kind of like the reading version of watching a game in an hour.

I’m not discounting anything. It is what it is which is an impressive stat line. He’s won some of those games with outright bad (Markstrom level, even) goaltending. But hey, if you think he’s never going to lose again, by all means, throw him in and let’s get us our second cup.

Well don't quote me then if you are skimming by like Marky... lol

Yeah... outright bad goaltending.... Guess you don't watch the games either. Vladar might have let in a few softies, but other than the Leafs game he wasn't bad in most of them.

I don't care if he lets in 7 and we win the game, better than losing and letting in 2.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Naitix

I think that if Markstrom keeps failing, we will bring up Wolf to see what he can do. He has the skill set to be the goalie that can win you games, as he has proved at every level he has played. I just do not see how we can get to a point where we have less than 20 games remaining and we keep loosing games due to Markstrom being below .900. Management and Sutter have shown that they will try rookies if it comes down to it, so I would not be surprised if Wolf gets a shot.

Markstrom would need to trip on a skittle straight to IR before Wolf is called up. and even then he might not get a start.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Quality not quantity. When they do give up high danger chances they have a habit of giving up really bad ones.

I don't buy that for a second and it's completely subjective unless you have some quantification to share. The people who makes careers out of identifying this stuff will tell you Markstrom is underperforming compared to his peers, so I trust that more than "we give up extra, extra grade A chances".

Plus Vladar has been better in front of the exact same team.

Last night the flames team defense was crap. But Markstrom still got 4 goals scored by his team and gave up 5. Vladar's numbers aren't great, but I think he's been making that one extra save in either regulation or OT that allows the Flames to win.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Markstrom would need to trip on a skittle straight to IR before Wolf is called up. and even then he might not get a start.

If we started Wolf when we are still trying to clinch a playoff spot, you might as well get the minivan ready and drive Markstrom to YYC.

I still want Wolf to play a game at the end of the season though. Clinch fast!

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Best case scenario he figures it out and we get the Vezina-calibre goaltender back. Worst case scenario he doesn’t and we get a better draft pick.

I don’t see how that’s different than “seeing what happens.” Making the playoffs isn’t a guarantee with Vladar either.

You have completely written Vladar off. You may want to go back and see what Markstrom had done by the age Vladar now is. Because the answer is it's damn similar.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

I don't buy that for a second

I didn't expect you to. It's not anti-Markstrom enough.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I didn't expect you to. It's not anti-Markstrom enough.

Well I cited evidence based objective analysis from people who do this professionally and you provide your "feels".

Do you feel naturalstattrick and moneypuck are anti-Markstrom as well? They have him bottom 1/6th and bottom 1/3rd respectively in performance.

Goalies playing well don't have .892 save percentages, even if they are playing on teams that are defensive tire fires.

He's been bad all year.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Well I cited evidence based objective analysis from people who do this professionally and you provide your "feels".

Do you feel naturalstattrick and moneypuck are anti-Markstrom as well? They have him bottom 1/6th and bottom 1/3rd respectively in performance.

Goalies playing well don't have .892 save percentages, even if they are playing on teams that are defensive tire fires.

He's been bad all year.

I never said he's not underperforming. But there's been plenty of games this season where he's lacked support. Whether that's offense, defense, or both. It's been pointed out many times by people who are impartial.

Vladar for some reason gets more support. People who dislike Markstrom try and claim it's because the team has no confidence in him but we as fans have no clue. For all we know they might feel like they need to be more responsible when Vladar plays and lose that mentality with Markstrom.

As far as who starts it really doesn't matter to me. People who expect Vladar to get most of the starts are dreaming though. If Markstrom plays like he did last night and even against Chicago and the team gives him the same support they do Vladar they win more than they lose.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Giveaway that led to a breakaway. A nothing play that Zadorov turned into a 2 on 1. Backlund's controller disconnected on the tying goal. All easily preventable goals that the skaters gave to the Rangers on a platter. Thankfully Markstrom was the Flames best player last night or they wouldn't have even got the single point. The team defense needs to be miles better and the brain cramps/giveaways have to stop asap if this team wants to make the playoffs.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yeah, and obviously “isn’t going to win us a cup” is an overly definitive statement, but my point was mostly that I don’t really see the solution on the bench. Maybe Vladar takes over, maybe he gets us to the playoffs on the back of a .905. If we go out in round one, is that really any better than missing the playoffs in a year where it doesn’t look like we have it and the draft is great?

It’s one of those scenarios where (to me) it feels like a switch is going to place us on the high end of mediocre at best. If we felt like a contender that was just being held back by goaltending, I’d be 100% for a switch.

I think it's as simple as playing the hot hand. I certainly don't think Vladar is going to win the Flames a Stanley Cup but the organization has always had the playoffs or bust mentality and I don't think many organizations would do any different in the Flames situation. The NHL largely consists of mediocre teams treading water that hold out hope for making the playoffs and going on a Cinderella run. The Flames are part of that group.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Giveaway that led to a breakaway. A nothing play that Zadorov turned into a 2 on 1. Backlund's controller disconnected on the tying goal. All easily preventable goals that the skaters gave to the Rangers on a platter. Thankfully Markstrom was the Flames best player last night or they wouldn't have even got the single point. The team defense needs to be miles better and the brain cramps/giveaways have to stop asap if this team wants to make the playoffs.

Strongly disagree with the bold.

No chance on the 3rd and 4th goals for sure, but on both of the first two, he was backing in, made himself small, and made it way too easy for the shooter. As for the OT goal, I thought he over-committed (as he did a minute or so earlier), but I get that is debatable.

Goalies are paid to make saves. Markstrom made some good ones in the 2nd and 3rd period. But they should not have been down 2-1 early on. It's just happening too often. Either the shooters on the other teams are spectacularly good, or incredibly lucky, or Markstrom isn't making enough saves - which one of the 3 seems the most plausible?

[Enoch Root]

With every other position, players earn (and get) more ice time by playing better, and earning it. So why is the goalie position different? Why should a guy continue to get the majority of the ice time, simply because he 'is the #1 guy'? Sure, veterans have earned some respect and some trust. But performance has to be part of the equation as well.

[dino7c]

Vladar has played 3 of 5 now

Markstrom certainly got the benefit of the doubt earlier but Vladar is getting more games in recent days

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

With every other position, players earn (and get) more ice time by playing better, and earning it. So why is the goalie position different? Why should a guy continue to get the majority of the ice time, simply because he 'is the #1 guy'? Sure, veterans have earned some respect and some trust. But performance has to be part of the equation as well.

Simple answer is the coaches don't have enough faith in Vladar to be the better option for a stretch run towards making the playoffs or playing in the playoffs.

I agree with you in theory, but the coaches don't seem to. If the playoffs started tomorrow I think Sutter plays Markstrom.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Simple answer is the coaches don't have enough faith in Vladar to be the better option for a stretch run towards making the playoffs or playing in the playoffs.

I agree with you in theory, but the coaches don't seem to. If the playoffs started tomorrow I think Sutter plays Markstrom.

No question about it. And even if he plays poorly in the 1st game, they go right back to him in game 2.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

With every other position, players earn (and get) more ice time by playing better, and earning it. So why is the goalie position different? Why should a guy continue to get the majority of the ice time, simply because he 'is the #1 guy'? Sure, veterans have earned some respect and some trust. But performance has to be part of the equation as well.

I think it’s the same reason Paul Maurice keeps getting jobs

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

With every other position, players earn (and get) more ice time by playing better, and earning it. So why is the goalie position different? Why should a guy continue to get the majority of the ice time, simply because he 'is the #1 guy'? Sure, veterans have earned some respect and some trust. But performance has to be part of the equation as well.

I think the idea was that Markstrom would be fresh and rested out of the break and it was an opportunity for him to turn the page on the season up to the break. It didn't work out but I understand why they started him as they are likely still holding out he can get back to the level of play last season. I have to think that patience is wearing thin though.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Strongly disagree with the bold.

No chance on the 3rd and 4th goals for sure, but on both of the first two, he was backing in, made himself small, and made it way too easy for the shooter. As for the OT goal, I thought he over-committed (as he did a minute or so earlier), but I get that is debatable.

Goalies are paid to make saves. Markstrom made some good ones in the 2nd and 3rd period. But they should not have been down 2-1 early on. It's just happening too often. Either the shooters on the other teams are spectacularly good, or incredibly lucky, or Markstrom isn't making enough saves - which one of the 3 seems the most plausible?

Of course people are going to strongly disagree with the bold, that's the new CP this season. Even if Markstrom plays well, is the best player on the Flames and they still lose we try to find a way to either make it his fault or at the very least say he didn't help. I get it.

Pretty obvious the issue last night was the team defense and the atrocious giveaways. Doesn't matter who is net if the Flames are going to serve up chances like that on a silver platter.

[dino7c]

Vladar has played more than Markstrom of late...some of you are arguing for something that has already happened

He obviously won't play them all but it's not a starter/backup deployment anymore