Too early to panic about Markstrom

[madmike]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

The real question is what is their relative trade value.

The Flames don't have the horses to win much this year, so anything resembling a successful season will mean rolling the dice on keeping either Vladar or Markstrom, but not both. Upgrading scoring by downgrading goaltending depth seems like an obvious decision to make.

At this point, given his age, play and contract, Markstrom unfortunately has negative value. To unload him the Flames would either need to add assets, or eat a significant chunk of his cap. I don’t see him going anywhere.

Vladar could likely fetch a 2nd. He’s young, on a relatively friendly contract and has the potential to get better and develop into a capable starter. I wouldn’t really want to trade him, but either this year or next, the Flames need to make room for Wolf, which means Vladar almost certainly has to go.

Markstrom is what he is at this point - an overpaid, inconsistent, below-average starter. He’s not the worst in the league and he’s at least useable, but he’s not going to carry the team to any big wins.

Best-case scenario is Wolf develops into the kind of goalie people hoped Markstrom would be and Markstrom becomes a grossly overpaid backup.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’m not sure why it’s baffling. Vladar isn’t going to get us a cup. Markstrom has at least shown the ability to be the best in the game. The only path to the finals is Markstrom figuring it out, as unlikely as it might be.

Exactly. I wish someone would point out to me one case where a backup developed into a starter and took over the job. It has literally never happened in the history of sport. Either Markstrom figures it out or the Flames are toast. Vladar is only there to be a backup, play a few games, and wear a ball cap. There is no other possible path.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Exactly. I wish someone would point out to me one case where a backup developed into a starter and took over the job. It has literally never happened in the history of sport. Either Markstrom figures it out or the Flames are toast. Vladar is only there to be a backup, play a few games, and wear a ball cap. There is no other possible path.

Young goalies to take over mid season?

Cam Ward
Jordan Binnington
Milkka Kiprusoff? Was traded but was just an AHL goalie

Just off the top of my head but all 3 went to finals or won the cup that year

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Exactly. I wish someone would point out to me one case where a backup developed into a starter and took over the job. It has literally never happened in the history of sport. Either Markstrom figures it out or the Flames are toast. Vladar is only there to be a backup, play a few games, and wear a ball cap. There is no other possible path.

Green text?

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Exactly. I wish someone would point out to me one case where a backup developed into a starter and took over the job. It has literally never happened in the history of sport. Either Markstrom figures it out or the Flames are toast. Vladar is only there to be a backup, play a few games, and wear a ball cap. There is no other possible path.

But that being said, Vladar's numbers are that great either. He just gets more goals when he is in the net. 2.71 GAA and .906 save percent is below average. He would need to show more to get named the #1

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by madmike

To unload him the Flames would either need to add assets, or eat a significant chunk of his cap.

The biggest thing is he would need to want to go. Like I said in the goalie future thread, as long as the team is competitive I don't see that happening.

The only way I see him wanting out is if he gets sick of getting left hung out to dry like last night.

[PepsiFree]

He’s obviously being sarcastic, but Vladar hasn’t shown anything indicating he can take over and carry the team. It’s not like he isn’t being given games, he is, and they’re spotty.

I don’t see Vladar carrying the team to a cup as any more likely than Markstrom doing it this season.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’m not sure why it’s baffling. Vladar isn’t going to get us a cup. Markstrom has at least shown the ability to be the best in the game. The only path to the finals is Markstrom figuring it out, as unlikely as it might be.

He also gave us one of the worst performances in playoff history against the Oilers.

You can't really come back from that.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

He’s obviously being sarcastic, but Vladar hasn’t shown anything indicating he can take over and carry the team. It’s not like he isn’t being given games, he is, and they’re spotty.

I don’t see Vladar carrying the team to a cup as any more likely than Markstrom doing it this season.

Pretty absolute statements about future events there. What we really know is that Vladar has been better than Markstrom this year.

And while Vladar may not carry you to a cup, (impossible to say never), there is a much better chance he will carry the Flames to a playoff spot, which at least gives you a chance at a cup.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

He’s obviously being sarcastic, but Vladar hasn’t shown anything indicating he can take over and carry the team. It’s not like he isn’t being given games, he is, and they’re spotty.

I don’t see Vladar carrying the team to a cup as any more likely than Markstrom doing it this season.

I don't think Vladar has been lights out but you can't ignore that the team wins more games when he's in the net. For that reason alone I think they need to start playing Vladar until his trend of winning begins to fade. The Oilers basically made the same commitment to Skinner and it's largely worked out for them as they just win more games when he starts. It's not desirable to have your high paid guy on the bench but winning games should take presedent over the bad optics of your franchise goaltender being a highly paid backup.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

He’s obviously being sarcastic, but Vladar hasn’t shown anything indicating he can take over and carry the team. It’s not like he isn’t being given games, he is, and they’re spotty.

I don’t see Vladar carrying the team to a cup as any more likely than Markstrom doing it this season.

10-0-3.... Yeah for Vladar to show us anything he should have went 13-0.... jesus

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

He’s obviously being sarcastic, but Vladar hasn’t shown anything indicating he can take over and carry the team. It’s not like he isn’t being given games, he is, and they’re spotty.

I don’t see Vladar carrying the team to a cup as any more likely than Markstrom doing it this season.

Markstrom might not even get them to the playoffs, you're talking about a winning a cup, child please.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Inferno

The biggest thing is he would need to want to go. Like I said in the goalie future thread, as long as the team is competitive I don't see that happening.

The only way I see him wanting out is if he gets sick of getting left hung out to dry like last night.

He faces the 7th fewest high danger chances of the top 35 goalies. While I agree he faced too much last night, in the season he has been well protected.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think Vladar has been lights out but you can't ignore that the team wins more games when he's in the net. For that reason alone I think they need to start playing Vladar until his trend of winning begins to fade. The Oilers basically made the same commitment to Skinner and it's largely worked out for them as they just win more games when he starts. It's not desirable to have your high paid guy on the bench but winning games should take presedent over the bad optics of your franchise goaltender being a highly paid backup.

Yeah, and obviously “isn’t going to win us a cup” is an overly definitive statement, but my point was mostly that I don’t really see the solution on the bench. Maybe Vladar takes over, maybe he gets us to the playoffs on the back of a .905. If we go out in round one, is that really any better than missing the playoffs in a year where it doesn’t look like we have it and the draft is great?

It’s one of those scenarios where (to me) it feels like a switch is going to place us on the high end of mediocre at best. If we felt like a contender that was just being held back by goaltending, I’d be 100% for a switch.

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

10-0-3.... Yeah for Vladar to show us anything he should have went 13-0.... jesus

You admitted last night you haven’t watched even one of the last 25 games, so feel free to watch some and we can circle back on the conversation.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

He faces the 7th fewest high danger chances of the top 35 goalies. While I agree he faced too much last night, in the season he has been well protected.

Quality not quantity. When they do give up high danger chances they have a habit of giving up really bad ones.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yeah, and obviously “isn’t going to win us a cup” is an overly definitive statement, but my point was mostly that I don’t really see the solution on the bench. Maybe Vladar takes over, maybe he gets us to the playoffs on the back of a .905. If we go out in round one, is that really any better than missing the playoffs in a year where it doesn’t look like we have it and the draft is great?

It’s one of those scenarios where (to me) it feels like a switch is going to place us on the high end of mediocre at best. If we felt like a contender that was just being held back by goaltending, I’d be 100% for a switch.



You admitted last night you haven’t watched even one of the last 25 games, so feel free to watch some and we can circle back on the conversation.

So you want to play Markstrom to lose more and get a better draft pick?

I'd rather make the playoffs and see what happens.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yeah, and obviously “isn’t going to win us a cup” is an overly definitive statement, but my point was mostly that I don’t really see the solution on the bench. Maybe Vladar takes over, maybe he gets us to the playoffs on the back of a .905. If we go out in round one, is that really any better than missing the playoffs in a year where it doesn’t look like we have it and the draft is great?

It’s one of those scenarios where (to me) it feels like a switch is going to place us on the high end of mediocre at best. If we felt like a contender that was just being held back by goaltending, I’d be 100% for a switch.



You admitted last night you haven’t watched even one of the last 25 games, so feel free to watch some and we can circle back on the conversation.

Maybe if you could read.... I said i haven't watched many full games the past 25. I PVR them and watch it in about an hour.

But even then how do you discount the fact our goalie is on a 13 game point streak and on a 5 game winning streak? but go ahead. Defend away.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

So you want to play Markstrom to lose more and get a better draft pick?

I'd rather make the playoffs and see what happens.

Best case scenario he figures it out and we get the Vezina-calibre goaltender back. Worst case scenario he doesn’t and we get a better draft pick.

I don’t see how that’s different than “seeing what happens.” Making the playoffs isn’t a guarantee with Vladar either.

[Naitix]

The way I see it is that Markstrom struggles with consistency and with the "easy" parts, he is a good goalie that can save the high danger chances that you need in order to win in the playoffs. You need your goalie to bail you out, and Markstrom can do that. That is why the coaching staff keeps going back to him, because if he is on he is really on.

Vladar is good as a back-up, he plays the right way and has good positioning but he does not have the skill that Markstrom has to save the high danger shots. His lateral movement is not great which gets exposed on odd man rushes or on breakdowns. I do not think he is a goalie that can get you to the promised land.

I think that if Markstrom keeps failing, we will bring up Wolf to see what he can do. He has the skill set to be the goalie that can win you games, as he has proved at every level he has played. I just do not see how we can get to a point where we have less than 20 games remaining and we keep loosing games due to Markstrom being below .900. Management and Sutter have shown that they will try rookies if it comes down to it, so I would not be surprised if Wolf gets a shot.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Best case scenario he figures it out and we get the Vezina-calibre goaltender back. Worst case scenario he doesn’t and we get a better draft pick.

I don’t see how that’s different than “seeing what happens.” Making the playoffs isn’t a guarantee with Vladar either.

I'll make that bet. If Vladar starts the majority of the games remaining, 31, $50 says we make the playoffs.

too bad i don't think it happens as Sutter is going to be a stubborn SOB and give Markstrom the majority of the games.