[Trade] Horvat (25% retained) to NYI for Beauvillier, Raty, and protected 2023 1st

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The likelyhood of him having a better career than Horvat is almost zero, Horvat is 27 and has over 200 goals and 400 points

that's with missing a lot of games

It may take a little while for Raty to gain some traction, but I would bet he's a better player at 25 than Horvat at the same age. See you in 5 Years?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Sandman

In no universe is Horvat a better skater than Raty. Skating has never been Horvat's primary attribute, all the way back to his draft.

Except in this universe. Raty is an ok skater, basically on par with Matthew Tkachuk. Here is a scouting report of the trade here.
https://www.flohockey.tv/articles/10...couting-report

And here is a report on Horvats skating.
https://lfpress.com/sports/hockey/lo...to-nhl-stardom

Horvat is a better skater than Raty, no doubt about it.

[Blaster86]

Horvat was one of the worst skaters in his draft class. He worked on it and got better. He wasn't any where near this level until three or four years ago. Skating can be improved with effort.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

some of you are really under rating Horvat

The guy has 7 20 goal seasons in a row including 30+ in the last two with a big plus this season
(I am counting 19 in the 56 game bubble season)

Goal scoring is the hardest thing to do in this league

Beauvillier and Ratay are going to outplay him now? yeah I highly doubt it. Maybe when he is 35 and they are younger if they are still in the league.

Was this you in the offseason agreeing that he was a 50 point guy who should sign for $6M? But now quesitoning that he's a 60 pt guy?

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...6&postcount=58

When he played for the Flames rival he was just okay, but now that he's traded by a Flames rival he's elite and they got a bad return.

Good player but riding a shooting percentage bender and is getting talked about like an elite first line center.

In the three years coming into this season Beauvillier and him had identical 5v5 production and power play production (when TOI was adjusted). Islanders sold Beauvillier at his absolute lowest, and bought on Horvat at his absolute highest.

Now it might work out for the Islanders. Barzal is an elite playmaker...and Horvat at least this season so far has been an elite finisher. So maybe they find chemistry and work together. But who knows how stoked Barzal is that his best friend was just traded, and now he's going to shift to wing to have to play with Horvat too.

Also I understand it's unlikely that Beauvillier outscores Horvat down the stretch...wouldnt be much of a bold prediction otherwise.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Was this you in the offseason agreeing that he was a 50 point guy who should sign for $6M? But now quesitoning that he's a 60 pt guy?

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...6&postcount=58

When he played for the Flames rival he was just okay, but now that he's traded by a Flames rival he's elite and they got a bad return.

Good player but riding a shooting percentage bender and is getting talked about like an elite first line center.

In the three years coming into this season Beauvillier and him had identical 5v5 production and power play production (when TOI was adjusted). Islanders sold Beauvillier at his absolute lowest, and bought on Horvat at his absolute highest.

Now it might work out for the Islanders. Barzal is an elite playmaker...and Horvat at least this season so far has been an elite finisher. So maybe they find chemistry and work together. But who knows how stoked Barzal is that his best friend was just traded, and now he's going to shift to wing to have to play with Horvat too.

When did I argue he wasn't a 60 point guy exactly? and since when is a 60 point guy bad

Raty is a zero point guy
Beauvillier has a career high of 39 points

You guys really want to bet me that Raty will be a 20 goal/60 point player in 5 years lol and than Beauvillier will outscore Horvat

again GL with that

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Except in this universe. Raty is an ok skater, basically on par with Matthew Tkachuk. Here is a scouting report of the trade here.
https://www.flohockey.tv/articles/10...couting-report

And here is a report on Horvats skating.
https://lfpress.com/sports/hockey/lo...to-nhl-stardom

Horvat is a better skater than Raty, no doubt about it.

From what that article said, Horvat got a skating coach and has improved his speed, good for him. I still say you line both up to do a lap, and Raty wins.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Sandman

From what that article said, Horvat got a skating coach and has improved his speed, good for him. I still say you line both up to do a lap, and Raty wins.

Fair enough, we can disagree on that. Time will tell on this trade.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Sandman

From what that article said, Horvat got a skating coach and has improved his speed, good for him. I still say you line both up to do a lap, and Raty wins.

you have a lot of faith in a 20 year old that has 15 points in 27 AHL games

Horvat had 40 NHL points in his 20 year old season

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

When did I argue he wasn't a 60 point guy exactly? and since when is a 60 point guy bad
Raty is a zero point guy

You guys really want to bet me that Raty will be a 20 goal/60 point player in 5 years lol

Yeah that's fair, for some reason thought you argued that specifically.

Not my prediction but I dont think it's impossible.

I agree it's highly unlikely Raty has the career that Horvat has had. And I doubt Raty has 200 goals and 400 points by 28 years old like Horvat.

But that's also the safe argument to make. Sandman is for sure being very bullish on Raty having that type of success, but it's also the way riskier side to take.

[Sandman]

Nice when we can disagree and nobody is insulted. Still love you guys as posters-dissentowner and dino7c.....

[dino7c]

lol yeah love everyone too...I'm not trying to insult anyone just fun debate

it is possible just very unlikely a struggling AHL prospect becomes a top 20 NHL goal scorer in 5 years

over 1000 players in the NHL now and 79 scored more than 60 points last season

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol yeah love everyone too...I'm not trying to insult anyone just fun debate

it is possible just very unlikely a struggling AHL prospect becomes a top 20 NHL goal scorer in 5 years

over 1000 players in the NHL now and 79 scored more than 60 points last season

Like I said, we'll meet in 5 years, and if I'm wrong, I'll send you a fruit basket or something....

[Geeoff]

How often does a pending UFA get traded for a surefire prospect? Almost never. Flames got nothing in return for Gaudreau

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Like I said, we'll meet in 5 years, and if I'm wrong, I'll send you a fruit basket or something....

I look forward to it

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

How often does a pending UFA get traded for a surefire prospect? Almost never. Flames got nothing in return for Gaudreau

Flames were also in first place not 28th or whatever...massive difference

[playmaker]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Raty is a Cole Schwindt level prospect.

middle 6 winger; prospect with 3rd line upside and a lottery protected 1st for a #1 center

If the Isles sign Horvat, then it is a great deal for them

Horvat is not #1 center in a contending team - he'd basically play a similar role to that of Kadri behind MacKinnon for the Avs. Also, they were not trading Horvat, they were trading 30 games of Horvat so the return is IMHO decent. Flames got late 1st (Morgan Klimchuk), Ben Hanowski and Kenny Agostino for Iginla as a pending UFA.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

How often does a pending UFA get traded for a surefire prospect? Almost never. Flames got nothing in return for Gaudreau

Gaudreau wasn't traded mid-season in a year when his team was projected to miss the playoffs; some models had the Flames projected as Stanley Cup favourites at the end of the regular season. Apples to oranges.

[FireGilbert]

Decent haul on a rental for the Nucks. Thought they needed a defence prospect but the first was a must have and will be better getting from the Isles instead of say the Bruins.

Crazy move for the Islanders who are desperately trying to recover their back to back ECFs magic instead of going for a full rebuild. What is Lou's plan if still out of the playoffs at the deadline? Do they flip Horvat? Even if they keep him then it becomes either lose him for nothing or a huge overpay. None of these situations sound good.

[Aarongavey]

Raty, the Angelo Esposito of this generation.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames were also in first place not 28th or whatever...massive difference

Not really. If you aren't first...