Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Playfair

Just an observation I’ve made. I have lurked on this page for awhile. Post a little bit. But it’s interesting how the dynamic of this page, which was once far more conservative, has become quite liberal. Also being located in Alberta seems, at least to my observation, out of sync with the rest of Alberta. I may be way off base, and it is a very generalized view, but it is what I’ve observed. Maybe because the definition of “liberal “ and “conservative “ has changed drastically since I joined. Maybe the changes in society in general. I don’t know. Forgive me if I shouldn’t have posted this but it is something I’ve been observing over the years.

Nevertheless I always have appreciated this page and all of you.

I think because the site skews demographically to college educated urban professionals who are around 40 you are a more liberal population then the typical Albertan is portrayed as. Perhaps it’s a bubble but in that world most are socially liberal or at least don’t care. The Anti choice, anti LGBT people in that group either stay well hidden or don’t exist. It’s just not even a discussion.

So with that as a starting point the modern conservative movement is at best a hold your nose and vote on economics party.

Then the economic portion as become libertarian nationalism over conservatism.

This leaves many of the historically conservative posters who are still here as political orphans. Essentially few will defend the UCP because they are just far to the right of anyone urban college educated person under 40.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Izzle

Or the left needs to be less corrupt so that we're comfortable voting them.

Hey all parties are corrupt to done extent. Just don't mix that corruption with extreme right ethos.

Using the US House as an example... The extreme right wing freedom caucus wants to shut down government and have a history pandering to Jan 6 stochastic terrorists.

What does the extreme left squad want? Appropriate climate change legislation, greener economy and an equitable society for women, minorities, LGBTQ.

Sorry what is the intent of this post? That the left is corrupt, but since the left says altruistic things why me worry?

Or did I read this wrong?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Playfair

Just an observation I’ve made. I have lurked on this page for awhile. Post a little bit. But it’s interesting how the dynamic of this page, which was once far more conservative, has become quite liberal. Also being located in Alberta seems, at least to my observation, out of sync with the rest of Alberta. I may be way off base, and it is a very generalized view, but it is what I’ve observed. Maybe because the definition of “liberal “ and “conservative “ has changed drastically since I joined. Maybe the changes in society in general. I don’t know. Forgive me if I shouldn’t have posted this but it is something I’ve been observing over the years.

Nevertheless I always have appreciated this page and all of you.

Totally. You see the same thing on reddit as well

I can only speak for myself, but for me personally I'm generally Conservative. Own lots of guns, trucks, former oilfield work, the whole deal. But in the last several years the right has moved farther right than I'm able to get on board with. So even though I still identify as, I dunno, centre right, the parties on the left are still closest to what I believe since the parties on the right are way too out there for me.

I think that some of the good Conservatives we've had in the past, people like Peter Lougheed, if they were to get into politics today it wouldn't be any of the modern Conservative parties they'd be joining

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think because the site skews demographically to college educated urban professionals who are around 40 you are a more liberal population then the typical Albertan is portrayed as. Perhaps it’s a bubble but in that world most are socially liberal or at least don’t care. The Anti choice, anti LGBT people in that group either stay well hidden or don’t exist. It’s just not even a discussion.

So with that as a starting point the modern conservative movement is at best a hold your nose and vote on economics party.

Then the economic portion as become libertarian nationalism over conservatism.

This leaves many of the historically conservative posters who are still here as political orphans. Essentially few will defend the UCP because they are just far to the right of anyone urban college educated person under 40.

It’s unfortunate for the whiney under 40 college educated liberal posters that a majority of political orphans voted in the Alberta ruling party.

Most conservatives are too busy working to post on a message board all day about such pressing issues as the need for universal basic income and other hand outs/government spending, but make no mistake they are very much alive and well.

Nice try though.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by Yoho

It’s unfortunate for the whiney under 40 college educated liberal posters that a majority of political orphans voted in the Alberta ruling party.

Most conservatives are too busy working to post on a message board all day about such pressing issues as the need for universal basic income and other hand outs/government spending, but make no mistake they are very much alive and well.

Nice try though.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Yoho

It’s unfortunate for the whiney under 40 college educated liberal posters that a majority of political orphans voted in the Alberta ruling party.

Most conservatives are too busy working to post on a message board all day about such pressing issues as the need for universal basic income and other hand outs/government spending, but make no mistake they are very much alive and well.

Nice try though.

This post is fire.

Being college educated is a bad thing now?

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Playfair

Just an observation I’ve made. I have lurked on this page for awhile. Post a little bit. But it’s interesting how the dynamic of this page, which was once far more conservative, has become quite liberal. Also being located in Alberta seems, at least to my observation, out of sync with the rest of Alberta. I may be way off base, and it is a very generalized view, but it is what I’ve observed. Maybe because the definition of “liberal “ and “conservative “ has changed drastically since I joined. Maybe the changes in society in general. I don’t know. Forgive me if I shouldn’t have posted this but it is something I’ve been observing over the years.

Nevertheless I always have appreciated this page and all of you.

I've argued for a while that it's hard to even call it conservative anymore, I think Libertarian is a much fairer title.

I think this site skews way further towards progressivism and social welfarism than most of Alberta. But I also think that is part in parcel to have real conversations about topics, outside of pure economic cynicism it's challenging to defend challenges to a lot of progressive ideals without admitting there is a large subset of society you just don't care about, and people generally want to be seen as caring, even if they don't care all that much.

I'm actually pretty sympathetic to a lot of the cynical economic arguments, but the problem is the right wing has completely abandoned them, and creates policy almost exclusively in the mold of short-termism and anti-wokism rather than seriously thinking about how to create enduring economic policy.

Conservativism has become a tenuous alliance of those who just understand themselves to be on that team still, those who want to milk the system for what it's worth in the short term, and those who believe there are short-term easy answers to economic problems. Actually taking the time to talk about the ideas in a forum like this hallows them out pretty fast, so the right wing has moved incredibly far from good discourse like we often have here.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Playfair

Just an observation I’ve made. I have lurked on this page for awhile. Post a little bit. But it’s interesting how the dynamic of this page, which was once far more conservative, has become quite liberal. Also being located in Alberta seems, at least to my observation, out of sync with the rest of Alberta. I may be way off base, and it is a very generalized view, but it is what I’ve observed. Maybe because the definition of “liberal “ and “conservative “ has changed drastically since I joined. Maybe the changes in society in general. I don’t know. Forgive me if I shouldn’t have posted this but it is something I’ve been observing over the years.

Nevertheless I always have appreciated this page and all of you.

Get him!!!

In reality though, yeah, modern Conservatism seems to have just gone off the deep end.

I'm primarily Finance focused and nobody cares about that anymore, its dead in our times.

And, you know, bigotry and uber-Religious zealotry just really isnt my jam.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Yoho

It’s unfortunate for the whiney under 40 college educated liberal posters that a majority of political orphans voted in the Alberta ruling party.

Most conservatives are too busy working to post on a message board all day about such pressing issues as the need for universal basic income and other hand outs/government spending, but make no mistake they are very much alive and well.

Nice try though.

So are you a lazy not busy conservative or a closeted liberal?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Interesting article parallels.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1616462449544253440

... with the UCP?

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Playfair

Just an observation I’ve made. I have lurked on this page for awhile. Post a little bit. But it’s interesting how the dynamic of this page, which was once far more conservative, has become quite liberal. Also being located in Alberta seems, at least to my observation, out of sync with the rest of Alberta. I may be way off base, and it is a very generalized view, but it is what I’ve observed. Maybe because the definition of “liberal “ and “conservative “ has changed drastically since I joined. Maybe the changes in society in general. I don’t know. Forgive me if I shouldn’t have posted this but it is something I’ve been observing over the years.

Nevertheless I always have appreciated this page and all of you.

As a Nova Scotian where the default political setting is Liberal, I've always really liked this thread as the default political setting is Conservative.

The biggest difference in discourse locally versus on here is "I like the folks on my team" while the actual philosophy is pretty close.

What I mean by that is we all tend to be Red Tories or Blue Liberals. We all tend to want to better society for all Canadians. The how varies slightly, but the biggest disagreements deal with the politicians themselves versus actual policy.

That said, I agree this thread/site has shifted more Liberal, or at least it seems that way as the CPC shifts more right and focusing on the fringe (convoy, religious fundamentalists, own the libs bros). So maybe it's less a shift Liberal(liberal?) as it is the CPC moving?

[Ped]

I've never voted Liberal or NDP in my life. I've always voted Conservative, raised in a church community, you're typical WASP, I suppose.

But conservatism had definitely taken a harder right - not that those people didn't exist before, but I think the extreme part of the movement has become more mainstream and more emboldened.

I began to feel disassociated from the right wing with the Black Lives Matters protests and the rise of Trump. To this day it still boggles my mind how people I know who appear to be decent people that care about others, somehow are still able to support Trump and his like.

I despise Trudeau and would still never vote Liberal. But I can't vote Conservative, either. It's a party that just continues to shoot itself in the foot at every opportunity and somehow can't grasp that handing the party to our version of MAGA guarantees you lose the city vote, and thus the election.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Ped

I've never voted Liberal or NDP in my life. I've always voted Conservative, raised in a church community, you're typical WASP, I suppose.

But conservatism had definitely taken a harder right - not that those people didn't exist before, but I think the extreme part of the movement has become more mainstream and more emboldened.

I began to feel disassociated from the right wing with the Black Lives Matters protests and the rise of Trump. To this day it still boggles my mind how people I know who appear to be decent people that care about others, somehow are still able to support Trump and his like.

I despise Trudeau and would still never vote Liberal. But I can't vote Conservative, either. It's a party that just continues to shoot itself in the foot at every opportunity and somehow can't grasp that handing the party to our version of MAGA guarantees you lose the city vote, and thus the election.

This is me too. I've definitely become far more left wing in regards to climate, but I feel like I'm not far off otherwise from where I was pre Trump/modern conservatism. Not really full environmentalism as I'm not really a save the cute animals guy though. Unfortunately, the liberals have a reasonable climate action plan, the conservatives refuse to really get on board, and even worse the NDP seem to think all carrots and no sticks is a plan and lack credibility. It's distressing for sure.

[ripTDR]

Conversely I'm a liberal dude. I certainly have liberal beliefs, but at the same time I have increasingly dissenting views of what liberal politics represent. I think there is a lot of people like me who are genuinely conflicted as to what represents us in the political spectrum. I have a hard time aligning myself to a party that I can get behind because Canadian politics in general is so fragmented with the vast area the country is in land and the fiefdoms within it that have their own agendas.

[Bill Bumface]

I think I've voted for almost every party there is now. Either in sincerity, or in full protest of the crap that was offered to me on the ballot.

I'm more interested in common shared goals and values as a country: Basics needs met, equal rights and prosperity for all in a sustainable fashion. I wish politics was just different ideas on how to achieve those shared goals. That seemed to be more how it was a few decades ago. Maybe revisionist history on my part. Everything seems more focused on prosperity of tribes within Canada at the expense of others rather than for the country as a whole.

It's all kind of gross. I also don't understand why anyone good would want to get into politics. What a terrible job.

[Fuzz]

Ya, politics these days is so backwards. Everyone is concerned with how to get into power to implement their ideas, rather than how to come up with ideas that the public would put a party in power. Danielle Smith found a loophole.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Yoho

It’s unfortunate for the whiney under 40 college educated liberal posters that a majority of political orphans voted in the Alberta ruling party.

Most conservatives are too busy working to post on a message board all day about such pressing issues as the need for universal basic income and other hand outs/government spending, but make no mistake they are very much alive and well.

Nice try though.

Talking points like this bother me. UBI is not a liberal or conservative ideology, it is a financial stance that should be taken as a neutral possibility and then debated with left and right implementation possibilities dependent on whether UBI is proven to be viable.

The entire government mandate is technically to control 'hand outs' to the population. Not everything needs to be politicized. It can simply be governing.

This is why nothing ever gets done.

If it makes 'current conservatives' happy, the increase in immigration to such a high level pretty much is the death knell for UBI, and that was implemented by the Liberals. But if the Conservatives are just opposing everything Liberal, then they should be pro-UBI and pro-controlled immigration (based on a yearly metric). This is where I am, and I hate 'pick a side' politics.

I'm not sure if Yoho or I, are the 'real' conservative on this issue. It's very confusing, and probably why the earlier poster referred to 'orphaned'.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Totally. You see the same thing on reddit as well

I can only speak for myself, but for me personally I'm generally Conservative. Own lots of guns, trucks, former oilfield work, the whole deal. But in the last several years the right has moved farther right than I'm able to get on board with. So even though I still identify as, I dunno, centre right, the parties on the left are still closest to what I believe since the parties on the right are way too out there for me.

I think that some of the good Conservatives we've had in the past, people like Peter Lougheed, if they were to get into politics today it wouldn't be any of the modern Conservative parties they'd be joining

I agree with you, but I think that if people like Lougheed joined the political game, they would be treated the same by most of the left, including being smeared, attacked, etc.

End of the day everyone wants to talk about how they would support a center-right candidate that was fiscally conservative and socially liberal, but the reason those candidates never come around is because in reality nobody actually agrees with fiscal conservatism anymore, and Canada has basically turned into a political system where it is us versus them, and by us I mean pay offs, corruption, scandals, political legislation to further driver voters away (C-21), refusal to work interprovincially, feds against provinces that they don't agree with, provinces against feds because they don't agree etc.

It doesn't matter how good a candidate would be, present a platform that talks about fiscal restraint of any kind, and you have no hope.

Which is why I find it amusing when some of the posters here 'claim' to support that elusive fiscally conservative / socially liberal position when it comes to 'that is the only way I vote CPC or conservative and there don't have a candidate like that available.'

In the meantime each new week we have another Liberal Party scandal going on. Quite amusing to watch.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Azure

It doesn't matter how good a candidate would be, present a platform that talks about fiscal restraint of any kind, and you have no hope.

Which is why I find it amusing when some of the posters here 'claim' to support that elusive fiscally conservative / socially liberal position when it comes to 'that is the only way I vote CPC or conservative and there don't have a candidate like that available.'

In the meantime each new week we have another Liberal Party scandal going on. Quite amusing to watch.

But that’s not true, because governments running on fiscal restraint have gotten big wins across the country. That’s the exact message guys like Kenney and Ford got in on, and there’s nothing to indicate that would fail federally.

I’m not sure what you find amusing, though. People are expressing the ideal candidate for them. Most of those people are like Locke, btimbit, and Slava, none of which are Liberal supporters, so what’s funny?

[Roughneck]

The Lougheed example is kind of funny since he was relegated to the backbench federally so he left for provincial politics where he joined a party with zero seats that eventually defeated the SoCred dynasty by finding a broader vote base towards the centre.


So even when Lougheed came along, he didn't get traction in the federal party, and didn't join the mainstream party provincially. But as much as Conservatives love to blame the left for why they can't pick a leader, anybody coming in wanting to take a more mainstream position on the centre-right will suffer the same fate as all the other progressive voices in the party do when they go up against the CPC base.