Practice Notes: Jan 20

[Manhattanboy]

Darryl and the guys better find a way to string some W's together because we could drop pretty quickly.

There's nothing new here. Going forward at this point in the season points are going to be much harder to bank.

It's why the losses to CHI, MTL, STL, NSH etc are so devastating.

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Well then be more specific.

When a guy whines about constant losing with no context coming off a division winning season ... not all that obvious.

I'm not the look back 35 years guy.

Fill your boots though!

Sorry, I will be more specific, in my defense I felt it was obvious when i mean playoffs as yes, we have been better in the regular seasons but you don't have parades for regular season awards dominance.

I am not looking back 35 entire years either, just gets tiring when the result is similar every year, even more frustrating now with higher expectations. At least during the young guns era, there were no expectations lol

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Darryl and the guys better find a way to string some W's together because we could drop pretty quickly.

There's nothing new here. Going forward at this point in the season points are going to be much harder to bank.

It's why the losses to CHI, MTL, STL, NSH etc are so devastating.

They have 82 games to figure it out and get in.

How this team is playing is not ideal, but it's not a disaster yet.

[Flaming Horse]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Darryl Sutter has always had a shelf life.

If that's come up then fine. I expect it's coming in the next two years tops.

But the rest I just don't see. Hockey market over reaction. More play for Phillips wouldn't change a lot, hoping for Pelletier to help out, but the impact of his play won't move the needle. They need their best four or five players to get back to being their best four or five players. None of these stubborn decisions will mean anything if they don't.

I agree with you. If your top players are not your best players you are not going anywhere.We can debate the young guys topic all we want but until our top players are more consistent we are not doing anything.There has been a lot of negativity towards Sutter on the forum but Tre was the one who signed two guys to 8yr extensions even before playing a single game with the team. This is a bigger issue than Pelts getting time. As I have also said before, this team needs to get faster. The lack of drafting players with speed is also a big issue.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by redmile04

Sorry, I will be more specific, in my defense I felt it was obvious when i mean playoffs as yes, we have been better in the regular seasons but you don't have parades for regular season awards dominance.

I am not looking back 35 entire years either, just gets tiring when the result is similar every year, even more frustrating now with higher expectations. At least during the young guns era, there were no expectations lol

You remember it different than I do. Expectations grew super high through the 1980s. Then it took about half of the 1990s for our spirits to be crushed. By the turn of the millennium we were just happy to have a team, and then Sutter made everything better, raised hopes which were dashed again. Rebuild was fast, but core inconsistent. We have a new core now, and it doesn't seem to be working.

So I think it's fair to say Flames have been more like they are today, throughout their history, than the halcyon days of the 1980s.

I guess what I am saying is that as a Flames fan you should expect what we have right now.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Sutter also has a heck of a lot more to work with. And I'm not convinced Darryl is honest a lot of the time.

Nevertheless, I'll grant you that Sutter has been better than Hartley was. But I don't think the bar is particularly high. I think his shtick is wearing thin everywhere.

Putting your two best forwards with Lucic for a month ... it's asinine, honestly. The low-ceiling play style. The unwillingness to let guys be creative or cheat for offence whatsoever when you're smarting for goals. They're playing Rick Tocchet hockey and it's horrible to watch.

The proposals to put unttested rookies in the top 6 is also farfetched though. I'm not a fan of Lucic in the top 6. IN fact I've been an advocate of platooning him with other players. But it coincided with a bump in wins, TBF.

It's really a question of trust and Sutter doesn't trust Pelletier or Phillips to (a) make an impact and (b) not screw up. He has a vision of player development, it's true. and it seems to have worked with players who came up under him more often than not.

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

You remember it different than I do. Expectations grew super high through the 1980s. Then it took about half of the 1990s for our spirits to be crushed. By the turn of the millennium we were just happy to have a team, and then Sutter made everything better, raised hopes which were dashed again. Rebuild was fast, but core inconsistent. We have a new core now, and it doesn't seem to be working.

So I think it's fair to say Flames have been more like they are today, throughout their history, than the halcyon days of the 1980s.

I guess what I am saying is that as a Flames fan you should expect what we have right now.

Lots of hopes dashed for sure, in different ways and different times. The one year we did everything right, everything worked out for us ( until the end) the NHL screws us over... when we arent messing things up ourselves ( rare) the NHL is doing it for us.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Darryl and the guys better find a way to string some W's together because we could drop pretty quickly.

There's nothing new here. Going forward at this point in the season points are going to be much harder to bank.

It's why the losses to CHI, MTL, STL, NSH etc are so devastating.

Every team losses games to bad teams...STL and NSH aren't even bad teams
Chicago is on a heater lately they just beat the Avs in regulation and have beat Seattle. Its not about a few games its the entire body of work.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

I could not disagree more.

Since his demotion

16 games

CF% - 59.60 (4th among forwards behind the Backlund line)
SF% - 62.96% (2nd among forwards)
xGA - 4.93 (lowest on the team)
xGF% - 54.7%
HDCF% - 51.06% (4th among forwards behind the Backlund line)
On ice SH% - 4.71% (lowest of any forward)

This kid is literally doing everything that is asked of him this season, and single handedly turned that 4th line around.

That meets the eye test for me, he has been one of the best forwards in my opinion outside the Backlund line. Has done everything he could possibly be asked to do to move up the lineup. Now may be the time to sit in the press box and learn more (maybe put on a little more weight to add some size).

[FanIn80]

People complaining about Looch being on a line with Kadri and Huberdeau must not remember Semenko on the same line with Gretzky and Kurri.

I mean, talent level, there's no comparison Gretzky/Kurri vs Huberdeau/Kadri, but the point is there's nothing wrong with a bit of muscle riding shotgun. Also, Looch is infinitely more offensively talented than Cement-head ever was.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

People complaining about Looch being on a line with Kadri and Huberdeau must not remember Semenko on the same line with Gretzky and Kurri.

I mean, talent level, there's no comparison Gretzky/Kurri vs Huberdeau/Kadri, but the point is there's nothing wrong with a bit of muscle riding shotgun. Also, Looch is infinitely more offensively talented than Cement-head ever was.

I don't think there is a top line in the NHL today that has some meathead on the top line to 'protect' the top players anymore. If that were truly necessary anymore it would be happening right now on a line with McDavid and Draisatl.

The reason it doesn't happen anymore is because it's needless and hurts your team. Which is what is happening with Lucic.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Being on the right side of the puck on the forecheck, line change fundamentals, that kind of stuff. Stuff that Sutter preaches in practices and wants to see on the ice.



Well, technically, 12.5M combined.

But if you are saying better linemates = points, that's when Ruzicka made his points as well, with combos of Lindholm, Toffoli, Huberdeau, Backlund. Then only guy he didn't play with was Kadri. So essentially, when placed in the top 6-9, they've produced the same.

To me it looks like Sutter is dealing with Ruzkicka the same way he dealt with Dube, and he loves Dube now.

He does all that tve stats provided prove it. He does look disinterested at times but I think that's just his game we always expect big guys to hit but he doesn't.

Line changes are just as much coaching as it is on players. Line changes have been a issue this season with the too many men calls and a lot of times half lines getting caught out way too long.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

He does all that tve stats provided prove it. He does look disinterested at times but I think that's just his game we always expect big guys to hit but he doesn't.

Line changes are just as much coaching as it is on players. Line changes have been a issue this season with the too many men calls and a lot of times half lines getting caught out way too long.

Thing is the stats don’t show those things. Line changes are just an example.

As for hitting, that’s when Ruzkick was actually playing well. He was very physical.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The proposals to put unttested rookies in the top 6 is also farfetched though. I'm not a fan of Lucic in the top 6. IN fact I've been an advocate of platooning him with other players. But it coincided with a bump in wins, TBF.

It's really a question of trust and Sutter doesn't trust Pelletier or Phillips to (a) make an impact and (b) not screw up. He has a vision of player development, it's true. and it seems to have worked with players who came up under him more often than not.

I'm not sure Sutter is any good at developing players. He forced Gio to go to Russia for a year after two full AHL seasons and 55 NHL games because he wouldn't give him a 1 way deal.

I agree Lucic is terrible on the second line. For every play where he magically gets in on the fore check fast enough to pressure the dman there are five times where he kills a play in the offensive zone and another five where he turns the puck over on his defensive wing along the boards.

My problem is Sutter's "guys" make mistakes as well, but he accepts those mistakes. When young guys make mistakes he isn't nearly as forgiving.

We will see how tomorrow goes, but I'm not holding my breath that Pelletier will be get any reps other than with the 4th line.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

People complaining about Looch being on a line with Kadri and Huberdeau must not remember Semenko on the same line with Gretzky and Kurri.

I mean, talent level, there's no comparison Gretzky/Kurri vs Huberdeau/Kadri, but the point is there's nothing wrong with a bit of muscle riding shotgun. Also, Looch is infinitely more offensively talented than Cement-head ever was.

But back then, Gretzky and Kurri alone can kill you, Cement-head didn't even need to ever touch the puck.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Thing is the stats don’t show those things. Line changes are just an example.

As for hitting, that’s when Ruzkick was actually playing well. He was very physical.

By physical do you mean hitting or playing above the puck good sticks on his checks and using his body to shield the puck?

I think the word physical has kind of evolved in hockey now. So just clarifying what you mean.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

By physical do you mean hitting or playing above the puck good sticks on his checks and using his body to shield the puck?

I think the word physical has kind of evolved in hockey now. So just clarifying what you mean.

I mean a hard forecheck, loosening pucks from Dmen, winning puck battles with his size. He was doing that. He’s not any more.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I mean a hard forecheck, loosening pucks from Dmen, winning puck battles with his size. He was doing that. He’s not any more.

Sutter coached it out of him, I’m sure.

[Mindtravellee]

I'd like to see Hub, Kadri and Lindholm and see if that works, bump up backs line and have Dube center the 3rd with Lucic + prospect

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The unwillingness to let guys be creative or cheat for offence whatsoever when you're smarting for goals.

What evidence do you use to pinpoint this is on the coach and not on the players. Many players on the flames had career years last year under Sutter. What changed - Sutter or the players?

What changed? Do you think Sutter changed the system suddenly this year after having success with it last year? Do you think after coaching successfully over many different flavours of NHL hockey, Sutter is suddenly in over his head? That makes no sense.

Do you think Huberdeau has tuned Sutter out after 44 games? That makes no sense.

It seems to me more likely that Huberdeau's play has been utter dog #### relative to expectations and on an outright basis. You lost two guys who drive play - Tkachuk and Johnny - and replaced them with Huberdeau and Kadri. Even on a good day, the two players coming in have considerably less offensive upside than the two players who left. And there have been maybe 2-3 games this season where you can say Huberdeau had a good day. He has been atrocious.

When the teams score less, it has to have more emphasis on defense. Markstrom hasnt been good either though, which has driven higher goals against.

Sutter isn't a magician. When your goalie isn't playing well and you're offensive star is playing like the 9th best forward on the team, it's going to impact success. Not having Kylington playing and having to play Stone is also causing headaches.

The only thing Sutter can do in this situation is stick with it and hope his stars can find there way.