Practice Notes: Jan 20

[SuperMatt18]

This fanbase has always struggled with big guys that don't hit.

Colborne, Jankowski, etc have all been called lazy over the years for not being physical.

There are time with Ruzicka where he's actually looked lazy, but personally I haven't seen that as much since pre-season. He fought the puck a little bit vs the Avs, but don't think it was from lazyness. And even then that line had strong underlying stats vs the Avs and wasn't on the ice for a goal against at all.

[taxbuster]

I'm OK with Rosie being booted for a bit...he's looked WAY too timid in the last few games and needs to find himself again. Think he's likely a 4th liner who can work his way up the heap (well...on a "normal" team...). He's got the tools, needs the attitude.

Will see if Pelts actually gets game time though. Who knows these days?

Bit of a depressing team. I have no strong feelings for them at all, and that's kind of a shame after 40 years or so.

[sonq]

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/prac...23/c-340220668
Looks like Rozie and Lewis shuffled the 4C

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I don’t understand this bashing of sutter. He coached the best line in hockey last year , so what gives?

I can see the challenging of sutter with regards to the lines and personnel decisions, but the lack of offence isn’t all on sutter in my opinion.

Its because he's put himself and his ego above the team.

That's what the stubbornness is all about.

Can't change decisions, in the face of a mountain of evidence, because he's Sutter and has won championships.

Well, you're wrong, and your decisions are obviously at this point stupid.

If things are so obvious the fans have been clamouring for it for months, it's tough to see what the problem is with changing up what you're doing.

Sorry but when hundreds / thousands of fans see something, they're usually quite right. Sutter's even said so himself. He's been quite selfish with his ego this year, for a guy who spouts "team" it's really quite distasteful.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Is he going to be eased into the lineup though or is he going to receive 8-9 minutes a game and then get sent down?

This kid hasn't played a hockey game in 2 1/2 weeks, is being thrown on the fourth line in his first NHL game, and will play 3-4 shifts a period. Go "earn it" kid. It's almost as if Sutter has built in an excuse as to why he won't play him.

As you say, he hasn't played a game in 2 1/2 weeks. And he has never played an NHL game.

But you think he should be put on the top 6 anyway? And play 17 minutes against the other team's top 6?

Why do some of you want to put prospects ahead of the team's needs?

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But you think he should be put on the top 6 anyway? And play 17 minutes against the other team's top 6?

Not just any old teams top 6 - back to back cup winners Tampa Bay Lightning top 6!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Its because he's put himself and his ego above the team.

That's what the stubbornness is all about.

Can't change decisions, in the face of a mountain of evidence, because he's Sutter and has won championships.

Well, you're wrong, and your decisions are obviously at this point stupid.

If things are so obvious the fans have been clamouring for it for months, it's tough to see what the problem is with changing up what you're doing.

Sorry but when hundreds / thousands of fans see something, they're usually quite right. Sutter's even said so himself. He's been quite selfish with his ego this year, for a guy who spouts "team" it's really quite distasteful.

Ooof ...

This is getting pretty personal.

I don't get every decision he makes, and sometimes he's hard on players, but your take is way over the top.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

What's the point of Dube on the first line? I don't get this stuff. I don't see what the team sees in him.

Because he's a good player who's on pace for 20g? It's not all about putting the most talented players together as much as we may want it to be. This isn't just a Flames thing either, lots of good teams have random 2/3rd line wingers playing with more talented players because they bring a missing element to the line.

Dube brings a lot of speed, grit and puck retrieval skills that benefit Toffoli and Lindholm greatly. Pelletier may be the same in terms of what he can eventually bring to Kadri and Huberdeau.

If he really brings it for a couple of games I could certainly see Sutter making the switch and bumping Lucic back to the 4th line where he belongs. Hopefully Pelletier gets more than just 8 minutes a game to showcase himself.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Its because he's put himself and his ego above the team.

That's what the stubbornness is all about.

Can't change decisions, in the face of a mountain of evidence, because he's Sutter and has won championships.

Well, you're wrong, and your decisions are obviously at this point stupid.

If things are so obvious the fans have been clamouring for it for months, it's tough to see what the problem is with changing up what you're doing.

Sorry but when hundreds / thousands of fans see something, they're usually quite right. Sutter's even said so himself. He's been quite selfish with his ego this year, for a guy who spouts "team" it's really quite distasteful.

Remember when thousands of fans wanted to trade Gadreau for whatever they could get? That argument doesn't mean squat. Thousands of fans aren't with team every day for every practice, game and meeting. Thousands of fans have no clue what might be happening behind the scenes.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Ooof ...

This is getting pretty personal.

I don't get every decision he makes, and sometimes he's hard on players, but your take is way over the top.

I have seen what I feel like is a lot more arrogance in interviews this year compared to last and TBH I haven't loved it.

Really seems to be giving the attitude of "I've done all I can do, and I don't have much to work with here" attitude this year that I really don't like.

Don't think he's really been overly positive about any of our players or prospects, but isn't really doing anything to change his own strategy either to try to improve things.

Really feels like his attitude this year is we are doing things my way, win or lose, and I'm not making adjustments.

Of course that could be all just his media persona...but based on the body language of the players and how they seem to lack confidence I doubt it. No doubt these guys lack confidence when the coach is saying how unskilled and bad you are all the time.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

As you say, he hasn't played a game in 2 1/2 weeks. And he has never played an NHL game.

But you think he should be put on the top 6 anyway? And play 17 minutes against the other team's top 6?

Why do some of you want to put prospects ahead of the team's needs?

Incorrect. I never said I had an issue with Pelletier playing fourth line minutes to start. In fact, I advocated earlier for that in a previous thread. I am questioning if that is truly the plan here or if he is going to "pretend" to give him an audition like he did with Phillips. You can't be expected to earn an NHL role in under 20 minutes of NHL icetime.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I think a lot of us are just having a hard time grappling with the fact that the team isn't very good this year

Pointing at Darryl and his stubbornness is an easy out. he has set himself up to be a target with his comments as well

But pelletier/Phillips/zary taking regular spots as rookies wouldn't move the needle as much as we think it would. They're still inexperienced

The team defense taking a step back, markstrom not finding a groove and the top forwards putting in 60% every other night are much bigger culprits than Darryl's decision making

Maybe the Darryl Sutter environment doesn't agree with some of the newcomers but bottom line is we'll go nowhere without our best players being our best players

They have it in them. But its up to them if they're going to take this team on their backs or just go quietly into the night

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I have seen what I feel like is a lot more arrogance in interviews this year compared to last and TBH I haven't loved it.

Really seems to be giving the attitude of "I've done all I can do, and I don't have much to work with here" attitude this year that I really don't like.

Don't think he's really been overly positive about any of our players or prospects, but isn't really doing anything to change his own strategy either to try to improve things.

Really feels like his attitude this year is we are doing things my way, win or lose, and I'm not making adjustments.

Of course that could be all just his media persona...but based on the body language of the players and how they seem to lack confidence I doubt it. No doubt these guys lack confidence when the coach is saying how unskilled and bad you are all the time.

Yeah and the real fans thing, he is using that as way to put his approach on hockey on everyone.

The real fans want Lucic and grit and grind hockey.

If he actually talked to fans and I am not just talking here on social media he would see most people do like a hard working team but they also want to see skilled players who are allowed to play to their strengths and play a skilled game.

It was like when Brian Burke came here and said people in Alberta want Black and Blue hockey.

No some people want to watch the skill come out kind of like last years top line being allowed to play rush hockey.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I think a lot of us are just having a hard time grappling with the fact that the team isn't very good this year

Pointing at Darryl and his stubbornness is an easy out. he has set himself up to be a target with his comments as well

But pelletier/Phillips/zary taking regular spots as rookies wouldn't move the needle as much as we think it would. They're still inexperienced

The team defense taking a step back, markstrom not finding a groove and the top forwards putting in 60% every other night are much bigger culprits than Darryl's decision making

Maybe the Darryl Sutter environment doesn't agree with some of the newcomers but bottom line is we'll go nowhere without our best players being our best players

They have it in them. But its up to them if they're going to take this team on their backs or just go quietly into the night

Not pointing the finger at the coach when there is a mountain of evidence suggesting that he has made his fair share of piss poor decisions is an easy out as well. It's his job to get the most out of his roster. That's what he's paid to do, and the team isn't in a playoff spot, despite having the horses to do so.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Yeah and the real fans thing, he is using that as way to put his approach on hockey on everyone.

The real fans want Lucic and grit and grind hockey.

If he actually talked to fans and I am not just talking here on social media he would see most people do like a hard working team but they also want to see skilled players who are allowed to play to their strengths and play a skilled game.

It was like when Brian Burke came here and said people in Alberta want Black and Blue hockey.

No some people want to watch the skill come out kind of like last years top line being allowed to play rush hockey.

bleh what I really want to watch is just wins. If they went 82-0 (and then 16-0 in playoffs) playing the most dull grinding 1-0 score style, I would be running around with a flaming C painted on my nether regions.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

bleh what I really want to watch is just wins. If they went 82-0 (and then 16-0 in playoffs) playing the most dull grinding 1-0 score style, I would be running around with a flaming C painted on my nether regions.

Yeah if we knew we would in the end of course anyone would take that, but its not how it works and thats now how teams play to win in the NHL.

Its not just a style but the type of players they bring in and value.

We bring in a star and treat him like crap and use him like he part of the 2023 version of the Red Wings Grind Line.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Darryl had a lot of success with teams in lower seeds

You still can't help but wonder if he reigns in the group down the stretch and they grind out a couple rounds

With him you can never overlook the possibility that there is still method to the madness

He needs to get more out of key players but he clearly had a vision for how they team needs to go about its business to win as it is currently constructed

I hope they get hot when it matters. Then all this middling play will be irrelevant. DS has been there too many times that I think we can bank on him hitting the right buttons down the stretch to get them in

Darryl's approach really embodies the "turtle wins the race" and 98% of every one else is usually too impatient and panicky to grind out that process. He isn't, and that's why he's the coach

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Ooof ...

This is getting pretty personal.

I don't get every decision he makes, and sometimes he's hard on players, but your take is way over the top.

Yet not wrong....

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Remember when thousands of fans wanted to trade Gadreau for whatever they could get? That argument doesn't mean squat. Thousands of fans aren't with team every day for every practice, game and meeting. Thousands of fans have no clue what might be happening behind the scenes.

These fans were right though, won nothing with Gaudreau and he left with nothing to show for him. The thousands of fans were right.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

What type of details are missing from his game that Lucic brings?

Being on the right side of the puck on the forecheck, line change fundamentals, that kind of stuff. Stuff that Sutter preaches in practices and wants to see on the ice.

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

The difference is Lucic is getting his points off the guys that make 17M combined

Even a pylon should get some points off that

Well, technically, 12.5M combined.

But if you are saying better linemates = points, that's when Ruzicka made his points as well, with combos of Lindholm, Toffoli, Huberdeau, Backlund. Then only guy he didn't play with was Kadri. So essentially, when placed in the top 6-9, they've produced the same.

To me it looks like Sutter is dealing with Ruzkicka the same way he dealt with Dube, and he loves Dube now.

[iggyloob12]

Originally Posted by Naitix

What do you not like about him? I think his struggles have mostly been nerves and making bone headed plays that he never done in the AHL.

Exactly this: mental mistakes that cannot happen in the NHL. The guy is 26 so at this point he is what he is: a tweener.