[OOT] January 17 with eight games.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

I prefer to engage in a discussion about ideas, rather than resorting to personal attacks and ad homimen arguments.

Attempting to compel Provolov to make a statement with which he does not agree and then claiming that a refusal to be compelled is "making it about him" is an illogical position. It can't be defended - a perspective that is bolstered by your inability to defend the position beyond name calling.

Provorov did not ask for this controversy, it was forced upon him.

No, I just have no time to entertain your game and you struggle with the fact that you can’t demand to be respected and treated as an equal in conversation. You have to earn it and you don’t.

Everything you say is meaningless noise. The same person who was advocating that the unvaccinated be killed is now complaining about “illiberal condemnation of wrongthink” because someone is being criticized for not wearing a jersey? My god, dude, do you think people buy this stuff? Honest question. Engage with that idea for a second. Do you think anyone paying even light attention to your schtick takes you seriously? That the guy who believes people should be killed for a “personal medical choice” also believes it’s illiberal and shocking that public figures receive criticism for a “personal religious choice”? Come on. Do you think everyone here is stupid or are you the one who doesn’t see it?

Happy to have a conversation with other people, but your game is boring.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

No, I just have no time to entertain your game and you struggle with the fact that you can’t demand to be respected and treated as an equal in conversation. You have to earn it and you don’t.

Everything you say is meaningless noise. The same person who was advocating that the unvaccinated be killed is now complaining about “illiberal condemnation of wrongthink” because someone is being criticized for not wearing a jersey? My god, dude, do you think people buy this stuff? Honest question. Engage with that idea for a second. Do you think anyone paying even light attention to your schtick takes you seriously? That the guy who believes people should be killed for a “personal medical choice” also believes it’s illiberal and shocking that public figures receive criticism for a “personal religious choice”? Come on. Do you think everyone here is stupid or are you the one who doesn’t see it?

Happy to have a conversation with other people, but your game is boring.

I only find the discussion of ideas interesting. I don't find the discussion of posters in a personal sense (myself or others) interesting and I have no opinion one way or the other on those sentiments.

[cheevers]

I wonder if a player just decided not to take warm-ups before a random game, would Torts be ok with it? Even if you ignore the fact that he's an idiot and his views suck, how was he ready to play a NHL game after skipping warmup? If you are on his team, here is a guy that is not doing everything to win a game, yet is allowed to play. How do you respect a coach who harps on stuff like that who chooses to ignore it.

It seems NHL forever has issues on stuff like this. The whole hockey is for everyone rings more and more hollow every day.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by cheevers

I wonder if a player just decided not to take warm-ups before a random game, would Torts be ok with it? Even if you ignore the fact that he's an idiot and his views suck, how was he ready to play a NHL game after skipping warmup? If you are on his team, here is a guy that is not doing everything to win a game, yet is allowed to play. How do you respect a coach who harps on stuff like that who chooses to ignore it.

It seems NHL forever has issues on stuff like this. The whole hockey is for everyone rings more and more hollow every day.

I'm assuming he would have done warmup in his normal sweater if the organization had permitted that.

[stazzy33]

I wonder if he had skipped out on warm-up for armed forces appreciation day (or whatever they have in the states) because he didn't believe in war, if people would be so quick to forgive him?

To be clear, I think he is an absolute loser.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This is pretty much nonsense and misses the point completely.

Pride Night isn’t supposed to be a big deal. It’s a little thing teams do that really is only for fans in attendance. You don’t need to hear about every team’s night for it to matter. This isn’t some “bad publicity is better than no publicity!” situation. Educate yourself, because suggesting that people against LGBTQ saying so publicly is actually good for LGBTQ kids is extremely stupid.

And for the absolute losers in this thread who don’t get it and are trying to use this as an opportunity to share your own dim little political ideology or broken sense of morality: it’s not about the fact that Provorov doesn’t agree with or “believe in” LGBTQ rights or whatever. He’s allowed not to. There is not some intolerant/illiberal agenda about it. The fact is that on a night that maybe only makes a small difference to a few LGBTQ children in attendance, since no adult actually thinks putting on a Pride warmup jersey constitutes unwavering support and interest in queer folks, Provorov made it about him. Nobody would have confused his participating in warmups with his individual support of LGBTQ people. Nobody would have cared. He’s just one player and it’s a warmup of all things. A jersey. But he made it about him. And then cowered about it. It’s pathetic.

Compare it to players kneeling if you want. The difference is that those players didn’t pretend it was anything but a protest. If Provorov and Torts want to have a little protest, go for it. Stand behind what you believe in like mature adults, don’t hide behind some “I respect everyone” bull####. And expect, at minimum, the same amount of criticism people who kneeled got. Should Provorov be out of the league like Kaepernick?

But he's not saying he's against it, he simply didn't want to participate in something he didn't support. He didn't go out of his way to draw attention to himself and hasn't said anything negative about the LGBTQ community. Just because you don't support something doesn't mean you hate it, please tell me you understand there is more nuance to this than "you're either with us or against us".
Athletes are here to entertain us, if you're looking for them to be a moral compass for you I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol...if they didn't lose all those games they would be higher in the standings, no way!

Flames have more points than all those teams in the last month but whatever...I didn't know you meant the last 3 nights

Just saying don't freak out about every OOT...it will take 92-96 points to make the playoffs, get there and you are in

96 points doesn't guarantee you a spot, much less 92.

96 gives you a good chance but not a guarantee. Especially this year where 6-7 teams are tanking for Bedard meaning relatively easy points for teams competing for playoff spots.

The playoff cutline last year was 97 pts in the West and 100 pts in the East. To reach 97 points the Flames need to play .622 hockey for the rest of the season.

My point about the Avs is that they seem to be back on track and the Flames won't be supplanting them for a playoff spot. So realistically the Flames will either need to pull up their socks and get into a top 3 spot in the division (catch one of LA/Seattle/Vegas) or grab a wild card spot, which are tightly contested as a handful of teams are competing for two spots.

Point being, while things aren't as bleak as some are making them out to be, they also aren't as rosy as you're making them out to be.

But thanks for your snarky comment. Really adds a lot to the conversation.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

But he's not saying he's against it, he simply didn't want to participate in something he didn't support. He didn't go out of his way to draw attention to himself and hasn't said anything negative about the LGBTQ community. Just because you don't support something doesn't mean you hate it, please tell me you understand there is more nuance to this than "you're either with us or against us".
Athletes are here to entertain us, if you're looking for them to be a moral compass for you I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

There really isn't though. Either you think LGBTQ+ people should have the same rights as the rest of us, or you don't.

The players were asked to do a very very basic little gesture to support the rights of a historically repressed group of people. He refused to do it, even though doing so would have cost him nothing, and he would have just blended in with his teammates without drawing any attention to himself of any kind. Yet he chose to stick out like a sore thumb. It was a d### move.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

96 points doesn't guarantee you a spot, much less 92.

96 gives you a good chance but not a guarantee. Especially this year where 6-7 teams are tanking for Bedard meaning relatively easy points for teams competing for playoff spots.

The playoff cutline last year was 97 pts in the West and 100 pts in the East. To reach 97 points the Flames need to play .622 hockey for the rest of the season.

My point about the Avs is that they seem to be back on track and the Flames won't be supplanting them for a playoff spot. So realistically the Flames will either need to pull up their socks and get into a top 3 spot in the division (catch one of LA/Seattle/Vegas) or grab a wild card spot, which are tightly contested as a handful of teams are competing for two spots.

Point being, while things aren't as bleak as some are making them out to be, they also aren't as rosy as you're making them out to be.

But thanks for your snarky comment. Really adds a lot to the conversation.

No it wasn't

Vegas had 94 points...Nashville would have made the playoffs with 95
Caps would have made the playoffs with 85 points in the East

the playoff cutline is one point or a tie breaker above the 9th place team

[Mathgod]

That's not really how I look at it. If you want a playoff spot you have to look at what the 8th place team has generally done in recent years and find a way to match that level.

Relying on a hypothetical of barely squeaking above the 9th place team is a dangerous game.

Look at 2021 for example. You can say "the Habs would have got in with 56 points!" Problem is, the Flames wouldn't have got in with 56 points. They would have needed 59.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

That's not really how I look at it. If you want a playoff spot you have to look at what the 8th place team has generally done in recent years and find a way to match that level.

Relying on a hypothetical of barely squeaking above the 9th place team is a dangerous game.

Look at 2021 for example. You can say "the Habs would have got in with 56 points!" Problem is, the Flames wouldn't have got in with 56 points. They would have needed 59.

well you are wrong though...you have to beat the 9th place team to make the playoffs.

the playoff cut line is how many points it would take to make the playoffs

No NHL team has missed the playoffs with 97 points...the Caps certainly didn't need 100 points last year

The pace right now is 93 points...its not going to increase that much in 37 games with teams playing eachother

[Mathgod]

I'm not wrong though. The Flames needed 59 points to pass the Habs and make the playoffs in 2021. 56 wouldn't have got the job done. Last year Vegas had 94 points; they needed 97 plus tiebreaker to get in.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I'm not wrong though. The Flames needed 59 points to pass the Habs and make the playoffs in 2021. 56 wouldn't have got the job done. Last year Vegas had 94 points; they needed 97 plus tiebreaker to get in.

that's not the playoff cut line though you are only looking at it from the perspective of one team

Also, all the points come from somewhere...If team A has more points somebody else has less

Right now the line is in the low 90s...it will increase but probably not by as much as people think

The Caps certainly didn't need 100 points last season


Maybe you guys are right and this is a historic season where a Western Conference team misses the playoffs with 96 points for the first time in NHL history...but I won't be worrying about that in January

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Maybe you guys are right and this is a historic season where a Western Conference team misses the playoffs with 96 points for the first time in NHL history...but I won't be worrying about that in January

That would have been Vegas last year if they had 1 additional win.

[dino7c]

I have this debate with people every season...I will stick with historical numbers that have been correct every time so far

If the current pace was above normal I would maybe change my thinking but its not...Calgary is in a playoff spot with 51 points in 45 games

[FunkMasterFlame]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615592652929650688

[Yamer]

Except Kramer actually supported and participated in the AIDS Walk.

[FlamesAddiction]

Provorov has the right to express his beliefs and not be forced to support ones he stands against, but people also have the right to think he is a terrible person for having those views and criticize him for it.

Is taking part in initiatives like this part of player's contract? If so, the team or league should discipline him.

Also, good to know that Provorov, as an adherent Orthodox Christian also goes to church every Sunday (even when travelling), takes it as a day of rest from work obligations, abstains from pre-marital sex, conducts daily prayer in the mornings and evenings, doesn't east meat on Wednesdays or Fridays, and all the other wonderful things he is supposed to do to be true to his religion.

[stang]

Originally Posted by dino7c

well you are wrong though...you have to beat the 9th place team to make the playoffs.

the playoff cut line is how many points it would take to make the playoffs

No NHL team has missed the playoffs with 97 points...the Caps certainly didn't need 100 points last year

The pace right now is 93 points...its not going to increase that much in 37 games with teams playing eachother

The only thing beating the 9th place team does is put your team in 9th and pushing the 9th place to 10.

If you want to get in the playoffs you need to beat a top 8 team.

If last year the Canucks won one game more against Calgary and one game more against Edmonton, that would have put them 2 points above the 9th place team by 2 points. Still wouldn’t have put them in a playoff spot even though they had 96 points.

[dino7c]

I'm hearing a lot of ifs and buts

No Western Conference team has ever missed the playoffs with 96 points...let alone 97 or 98

Flames are in a spot currently with 51 points in 45 games

Nashville makes the playoffs last season with 95 points...so do the Flames