[PGT] Preds 2 Flames 1

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DomeFoam

Its a little baffling that Walker Duehr, while hasn't been bad in his time up, has somehow earned an extended look over the other guys. Pelts and Zary have over double the amount of points as him in the A. Big = GOOD baby!

It isn't all that baffling they are in different roles...Duehr got a look on the fourth line and ran with it. If he played poorly he would have been removed.

Pelts and Zary will likely be in the top 9 when all is said and done. Hockey isn't just about points or all the AHL leading scorers would be in the NHL

[DomeFoam]

Originally Posted by dino7c

It isn't all that baffling they are in different roles...Duehr got a look on the fourth line and ran with it. If he played poorly he would have been removed.

Pelts and Zary will likely be in the top 9 when all is said and done. Hockey isn't just about points or all the AHL leading scorers would be in the NHL

Lucic is playing up the lineup though, and guys like Coleman and Dube could fill these so called 'energy' roles on the '4th'. Why is the 4th line only and always been reserved for 'role' players?

Kraken are rolling out a bottom 6 of:

Tolvanen-Gourde-Bjorkstrand
Tanev-Geekie-Sprong

Kraken are scoring with all four lines. This bottom 6 is regularly scoring and providing speed, energy. Why can't Zary and Pelletier do the same? The only one I would say fills the traditional role in this example is Tanev.

[dino7c]

they can

I just think Duehr got in against some bigger teams and played well enough to stay in the lineup. Hopefully those guys do they same when they get a chance.

Watching the games Duehr has certainly earned a spot IMO.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DomeFoam

Lucic is playing up the lineup though, and guys like Coleman and Dube could fill these so called 'energy' roles on the '4th'. Why is the 4th line only and always been reserved for 'role' players?

Kraken are rolling out a bottom 6 of:

Tolvanen-Gourde-Bjorkstrand
Tanev-Geekie-Sprong

Kraken are scoring with all four lines. This bottom 6 is regularly scoring and providing speed, energy. Why can't Zary and Pelletier do the same? The only one I would say fills the traditional role in this example is Tanev.

Coleman and Dube on the 4th line? Ugh.

BTW, don't look now but the combo of Geekie and Bjorkstrand is almost identical points wise to Ruzicka and Lewis. The Kraken are also playing 15 point Ryan Donato on the third line LW. Lucic is in exactly the same spot with 12.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Shout out to Chris Tanev for sticking with that play on the 4 on 1 and breaking it up when everyone else went off to change. That guy is easily my favorite Flame since Iggy.

I was screaming at the TV on that play .. delighted that Tanny got in there - he is so often the best defender!

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Coleman and Dube on the 4th line? Ugh.

BTW, don't look now but the combo of Geekie and Bjorkstrand is almost identical points wise to Ruzicka and Lewis. The Kraken are also playing 15 point Ryan Donato on the third line LW. Lucic is in exactly the same spot with 12.

Even Ritchie was on pace for 16 goals

fourth line play has been the least of the Flames issues

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DomeFoam

Its a little baffling that Walker Duehr, while hasn't been bad in his time up, has somehow earned an extended look over the other guys. Pelts and Zary have over double the amount of points as him in the A. Big = GOOD baby!

I thought he took a step back last night. Wasn't near as good as he was in the previous games.

Wouldn't surprise me if he comes out now.

Less sure of himself breaking out and on the forecheck.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

It isn't all that baffling they are in different roles...Duehr got a look on the fourth line and ran with it. If he played poorly he would have been removed.

Pelts and Zary will likely be in the top 9 when all is said and done. Hockey isn't just about points or all the AHL leading scorers would be in the NHL

Problem is why does Duehr get that look first to start with over a former 1st rounder who is a PPG in the AHL, while also beings strong defensively and a great PKer

And why can't a 4th line provide a space for youngers to break in.

Mangiapane-Ryan-Hathaway is the best 4th line this team has had in the last 20 years.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

He absolutely got outcoached by a rookie head coach in Edmonton in the playoffs.

refusal to play the other goalie

Markstrom was EBUG level

[Paulie Walnuts]

By the sounds of it I think he is coming out tomorrow but who knows who comes in?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Problem is why does Duehr get that look first to start with over a former 1st rounder who is a PPG in the AHL, while also beings strong defensively and a great PKer

And why can't a 4th line provide a space for youngers to break in.

Mangiapane-Ryan-Hathaway is the best 4th line this team has had in the last 20 years.

And how old were those three guys?

Duehr is 25
Pelltier is 21

Its not just height, man strength

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Problem is why does Duehr get that look first to start with over a former 1st rounder who is a PPG in the AHL, while also beings strong defensively and a great PKer

And why can't a 4th line provide a space for youngers to break in.

Mangiapane-Ryan-Hathaway is the best 4th line this team has had in the last 20 years.

The Flames aren't worried about harming Duehr's development.

But they can't have Pelletier playing 7 minutes a night, and there just isn't enough five on five minutes to have the fourth line play say 12.

Right now he's not playing at all ... so clearly they've deemed some "with the club" time to be helpful to him.

But if he gets in and gets 7 minutes a night and loses confidence that could set him back.

Not something you have to agree with, but I believe that's the thinking.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The Flames aren't worried about harming Duehr's development.

But they can't have Pelletier playing 7 minutes a night, and there just isn't enough five on five minutes to have the fourth line play say 12.

Right now he's not playing at all ... so clearly they've deemed some "with the club" time to be helpful to him.

But if he gets in and gets 7 minutes a night and loses confidence that could set him back.

Not something you have to agree with, but I believe that's the thinking.

If you're willing to sit him in the press box you need to be willing to play him 8 minutes a night.

People make too many excuses for Sutter not playing these guys because they are under 6'0".

Matthew Phillips is 24 - was age the issue with him too?

Strength is a factor for sure - but you also need to be strong to play at the AHL level, it's not that much smaller of a league.

Other teams have found ways to give other undersized forwards like Cole Caufield or Alex Newhook at shot from that same draft - but the Flames just make excuses.

And sure maybe it hurts his confidence but I don't see Pelletier having that issue - he's a guy that seems pretty confident in himself.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

If you're willing to sit him in the press box you need to be willing to play him 8 minutes a night.

People make too many excuses for Sutter not playing these guys because they are under 6'0".

Matthew Phillips is 24 - was age the issue with him too?

They're only excuses because you don't agree with it.

I think it's pretty standard to not want to stunt a 21 year old first round pick's development with a 7 minute shift with limited talent linemates.

And I'm sure they're trying to decide every day the break even point between having to send him down to play games and the value he's gleaming from being with the big team.

But you don't lose a lot of confidence in the press box, you can getting stuck in your own zone for a two minute shift.

And I see a big difference in Phillips ... UFA at the end of the year, older 6th round pick and smaller.

[SuperMatt18]

To me it is an excuse. Successful NHL franchises find a way to incorporate their top picks and prospects into the lineup when they are 21 years old.

At some point if a guy is producing a PPG at the AHL level in a top 6 role, they need time at the next level to continue development. If you wait until a guy is 23 or 24 years old to get that shot to me it actually stunts their development. Guys from the same draft like like Boldy, Krebs, Newhook, etc were all PPG in short time in the AHL, and their team called them up. Pelletier has almost 100 games in the AHL of PPG play and we are worried about dressing him for a game.

You need to find ways to incorporate these guys and let them learn at the NHL level once they've spent time developing at the AHL level and ideally you do it when they are 21/22 years old.

I know you will make the argument that the Flames haven't really lost anybody who went on to have success with other teams - but to me that is cause and effect if you don't give these guys a shot then they don't learn at the NHL level and it's unlikely the next NHL team is going to want to develop them at the NHL level when they are 23/24 years old - they have their own picks they are trying to incorporate.

Mangiapane is a good example to me. He didn't step right in and produce in 17-18 but I do think he needed those 10 games in 17-18 to help him take a step in his development to then be able to be a guy that could step in during the 18-19 season to actually contribute a bit.

Giving a guy a game or two and sending him down if he doesn't look good isn't helping them develop.

I'm going to look at another Sutter coached team as an example of how Pelletier should be managed...

Tyler Toffoli was an AHL rookie in 12-13 - he had 51 points in 58 games that year. He was rewarded with 10 NHL games that season. The following year he started in the AHL again - played 18 AHL games and had 23 points and then he got called up for good and helped the Kings in a top 6 role on their cup run.

Look how Sutter used Toffoli in his NHL debut - on a line with Richards and Carter. Bumping Penner off that line. https://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/2...arter-richards

Pelletier should be skating next to Kadri and Huberdeau tomorrow. Or at the very least Pelletier-Ruzicka-Lewis.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by skcli

I am glad that it is not a OTL. Go home now and regroup

"Boy, I sure am glad we didn't get at least one point."

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

To me it is an excuse. Successful NHL franchises find a way to incorporate their top picks and prospects into the lineup when they are 21 years old.

At some point if a guy is producing a PPG at the AHL level in a top 6 role, they need time at the next level to continue development. If you wait until a guy is 23 or 24 years old to get that shot to me it actually stunts their development. Guys from the same draft like like Boldy, Krebs, Newhook, etc were all PPG in short time in the AHL, and their team called them up. Pelletier has almost 100 games in the AHL of PPG play and we are worried about dressing him for a game.

You need to find ways to incorporate these guys and let them learn at the NHL level once they've spent time developing at the AHL level and ideally you do it when they are 21/22 years old.

I know you will make the argument that the Flames haven't really lost anybody who went on to have success with other teams - but to me that is cause and effect if you don't give these guys a shot then they don't learn at the NHL level and it's unlikely the next NHL team is going to want to develop them at the NHL level when they are 23/24 years old - they have their own picks they are trying to incorporate.

Mangiapane is a good example to me. He didn't step right in and produce in 17-18 but I do think he needed those 10 games in 17-18 to help him take a step in his development to then be able to be a guy that could step in during the 18-19 season to actually contribute a bit.

Giving a guy a game or two and sending him down if he doesn't look good isn't helping them develop.

I'm going to look at another Sutter coached team as an example of how Pelletier should be managed...

Tyler Toffoli was an AHL rookie in 12-13 - he had 51 points in 58 games that year. He was rewarded with 10 NHL games that season. The following year he started in the AHL again - played 18 AHL games and had 23 points and then he got called up for good and helped the Kings in a top 6 role on their cup run.

Look how Sutter used Toffoli in his NHL debut - on a line with Richards and Carter. Bumping Penner off that line. https://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/2...arter-richards

Pelletier should be skating next to Kadri and Huberdeau tomorrow. Or at the very least Pelletier-Ruzicka-Lewis.

Dean Lombardi in San Jose and LA put his foot down with Darryl and got the best out of him forcing his hand.

It doesn't seem like Treliving is doing that with Darryl. He said he called him up and wants to see him in game action and now you have the coach talking about him being to small but he gets to watch players practice lol.

Its pretty simple this coach will not play, and I doubt he gets a sniff at the NHL as long as Darryl Sutter is coach.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Dean Lombardi in San Jose and LA put his foot down with Darryl and got the best out of him forcing his hand.

What proof do you have of this statement?

[Paulie Walnuts]

He wasn't meddling in roster moves in LA like he is allowed to in Calgary. He was given the players to coach and play not mock and make fun of players the organization drafted and store them in the press box.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

If you're willing to sit him in the press box you need to be willing to play him 8 minutes a night.

People make too many excuses for Sutter not playing these guys because they are under 6'0".

Matthew Phillips is 24 - was age the issue with him too?

Strength is a factor for sure - but you also need to be strong to play at the AHL level, it's not that much smaller of a league.

Other teams have found ways to give other undersized forwards like Cole Caufield or Alex Newhook at shot from that same draft - but the Flames just make excuses.

And sure maybe it hurts his confidence but I don't see Pelletier having that issue - he's a guy that seems pretty confident in himself.

Other teams also could have had Phillips for free and passed....what is their excuse?

The Flames also don't have a Cole Caufield in the minors but even if they did its a little easier to find room in that Montreal lineup that will miss the playoffs by 30 points