[PGT] Preds 2 Flames 1

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The above comment about Huberdeau jogged my memory of a play last night that stood out. Issues with how Huberdeau plays and who he plays with right now in a microcosm.

I think it was the 3rd period?

Huberdeau was in the corner and fired a hard fast pass in front of the net where Lucic was, standing with his stick at his waist.

Just standing there. In front. Where he should be. But unprepared for the pass. Just gazing.

This isn't me blaming Lucic or piling on. But this is a problem with the team as a whole. Not clicking, seemingly unprepared, not on the same page.

Its been 5 months (pre-season included where Sutter made sure the vets all played together to seemingly avoid this type of situation).

Saw that too, and I agree. Huberdeau makes a lot of really nice passes to guys who just aren't ready.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The above comment about Huberdeau jogged my memory of a play last night that stood out. Issues with how Huberdeau plays and who he plays with right now in a microcosm.

I think it was the 3rd period?

Huberdeau was in the corner and fired a hard fast pass in front of the net where Lucic was, standing with his stick at his waist.

Just standing there. In front. Where he should be. But unprepared for the pass. Just gazing.

This isn't me blaming Lucic or piling on. But this is a problem with the team as a whole. Not clicking, seemingly unprepared, not on the same page.

Its been 5 months (pre-season included where Sutter made sure the vets all played together to seemingly avoid this type of situation).

Yes that play sticks out. People complained he was throwing passes into sticks and stuff but those passes went into the slot and our guys are not prepared to do the work to receive them.

Lucic just stood there and the puck actually hit is stick and went out the zone but it was Huberdeau getting the blame.

The other comment above about rush chances is true, the top line scored off the rush a lot. This year it looks like they are playing the walls. Huberdeau was a rush player in Florida.

Stick him with two guys who can rush the puck up ice and skate and actually pass him the pick when he is in position instead of setting up in the zone and letting the coverage make you attempt low rate plays.

[Wastedyouth]

Literally any coach in the league could be doing as much or more with this roster.

Sutter is washed. Consistently being outcoached and flat out refusal to promote grade A prospects to infuse some life into a listless and horrible team to watch this year.

That extension looks bad right now. Took him no time at all to wear on the players and lose the room.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Sec214

At least he shoots the puck when he’s suppose to and doesn’t try and feed the puck through 8 legs and 4 sticks to a cross seem option that isn’t open…

When a team can basically check their men 5v4 because one guy will pass 90% of the time, you leave it to your goalie to stop that 10% shot.

This is why PP2 always seems to generate chances with limited time. The other team actually has to defend it.

Jonathan Huberdeau had the third most powerplay points in the NHL over the past three seasons combined. Maybe, just maybe, he is not being utilized correctly. The fact that the 25th ranked PP unit has not changed it's personnel or scheme whatsoever is a real indictment of the coaching staff.

The complete inability/unwillingness to integrate Huberdeau into the lineup has been Darryl's biggest failure this season.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Literally any coach in the league could be doing as much or more with this roster.

Sutter is washed. Consistently being outcoached and flat out refusal to promote grade A prospects to infuse some life into a listless and horrible team to watch this year.

That extension looks bad right now. Took him no time at all to wear on the players and lose the room.

Certainly not Paul Maurice!

[Naitix]

I think one of the issues with the PP comes from not having a lefty on the first unit who can one time the puck (I do not think anyone on the team could be particularly good at that, maybe Ruzicka?). Huberdeau usually plays the left point on PP so that he can fake a shot, shoot or pass without moving his body so it is seamless, it results in him making great PP passes for a one timer or set up another player that opposition can't read. That is how he assisted so much on PP previous years

Right now Flames are playing Toffoli on that left point due to his one timer and his preferred shot location, but this leaves Huberdeau to play on the right point. Lefty playing on the right point can't make seamless passes east-west without changing his body position. There is a delay in how fast that pass can be made so it is easier for opposition to read it thus intersect it. The other option is to have your body facing the left point but then you are not so much a threat for the shot so players move a bit to intersect the pass and the goalie can cheat.

Overall my point is that Hubedreau should play left point as that is where he excels at, and Flames need to figure out who can take one timers on that right point. But, if you remember last year Lindholm has that amazing quick release on right point, so i think we can use that unless somebody can get a shot off quicker. My preferred positioning would be, Andersson qb, Hub left point, Kadri net front, Lindholm right point and Ruzicka the high middle player. Ruzicka has a great shot and probably the hardest shot out of our forwards so I think he is the perfect player for Hubedrau to feed him passes so he can take shots in the middle from the top circles.

I like Toffoli on the PP but he is just the extra player that limits our PP potential, we have 2 players who are shooters on PP1 and both of them are righties. You need a lefty and the best option is Ruzicka imo

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Twitter aside (on which there are a lot of obnoxious Flames fans), there are posters here even that are no better than Oiler fans. I wouldn’t go so far as to say it isn’t remotely close to true. A loss happens and the turds roll in. If you want to spend time sniffing them up close to see which ones smell worse, be my guest, but that doesn’t seem fun.

It's funny how after a win, if the PGT is quiet, some people like to get on a high horse point out that the pessimistic people are staying away, but when the pessimistic people do post, the same people complain that they only post after a loss. Honestly, from my perspective, I am happy after a win and there seems like less to say when I am happy. Overly praising a win just seem like armpit sniffing.

Anyway, I don't think this game was as bad as some people are saying. The Flames were on their heals for first bit, but in the end, it seemed like a pretty even game to me in terms of effort. The last game of a long road trip with lots of miles was always going to be a hard one to win. It's games like this that you have to move on from and not take too much away from. There are a couple of players that probably deserve criticism, but not just because of this one game. More just because this one game emphasized their season long struggles.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Literally any coach in the league could be doing as much or more with this roster.

Sutter is washed. Consistently being outcoached and flat out refusal to promote grade A prospects to infuse some life into a listless and horrible team to watch this year.

That extension looks bad right now. Took him no time at all to wear on the players and lose the room.

I don't think he has lost the room. I think that's exaggerating

points in 17 of 21 games going into last night

that's not a team that's tuned the coach out

the Vancouver Canucks are that

but has his coaching of this particular group been elite? not sure it has. I think more can be squeezed out of this group

I think work and adjustments can be made to the first pp unit

I think weegar can be inserted there, and pelletier and phillips can have useful places in this roster that help motivate this group as it pushes guys to keep their regular spots

competition is good. youthful enthusiasm is good. Sutter could use these things to his advantage and he doesn't

it doesn't mean he isn't doing more good things than not with this veteran group. there are just some ways in which he himself could grow his toolbox and help himself compete with these pure skill teams with scoring talent on all 4 lines

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Literally any coach in the league could be doing as much or more with this roster.

Sutter is washed. Consistently being outcoached and flat out refusal to promote grade A prospects to infuse some life into a listless and horrible team to watch this year.

That extension looks bad right now. Took him no time at all to wear on the players and lose the room.

So last year he was winning the Jack Adams and now he is "washed" and being outcoached? Get a grip. The guy knows what he's doing, but he's got a team devoid of enough true elite talent compared to last season (and/or too many players not playing up to levels they were at last year).

Should he be tweaking the lineup and giving young players more of a chance? I think so. But, let's be realistic here. Moving Ruzicka back up the lineup, riding Vladar, or swapping in Pelletier for anyone isn't going to turn this team into some vastly different iteration of itself at this point.

The team is just not as good as it was last year and that doesn't mean Sutter has lost the room or worn on players. If that were true we would see a team absolutely reeling every game. They are getting results, albeit not the lengthy win streak variety we would all like, but I'd rather have him at the helm right now than the next iteration of Ward, Gulutzan or some other hack.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Should have been 2-2

Not sure how they overturn it after such a long look...there are many examples of that counting

Flames got their one favourable call per season already.

[iggyloob12]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Literally any coach in the league could be doing as much or more with this roster.

Sutter is washed. Consistently being outcoached and flat out refusal to promote grade A prospects to infuse some life into a listless and horrible team to watch this year.

That extension looks bad right now. Took him no time at all to wear on the players and lose the room.

Who are these grade As? Guys like Pelletier and Zary could be considered solid prospects, but grade A is a stretch. And Phillips is not a prospect.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

So last year he was winning the Jack Adams and now he is "washed" and being outcoached? Get a grip. The guy knows what he's doing, but he's got a team devoid of enough true elite talent compared to last season (and/or too many players not playing up to levels they were at last year).

Should he be tweaking the lineup and giving young players more of a chance? I think so. But, let's be realistic here. Moving Ruzicka back up the lineup, riding Vladar, or swapping in Pelletier for anyone isn't going to turn this team into some vastly different iteration of itself at this point.

The team is just not as good as it was last year and that doesn't mean Sutter has lost the room or worn on players. If that were true we would see a team absolutely reeling every game. They are getting results, albeit not the lengthy win streak variety we would all like, but I'd rather have him at the helm right now than the next iteration of Ward, Gulutzan or some other hack.

He absolutely got outcoached by a rookie head coach in Edmonton in the playoffs.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by iggyloob12

Who are these grade As? Guys like Pelletier and Zary could be considered solid prospects, but grade A is a stretch. And Phillips is not a prospect.

All three scoring at the rate they are at the ages they are in the AHL makes them grade a prospects.

They are outscoring Backlund and Mangiapane at the same ages.

They all deserve a shot.

They probably will not get one with Sutter.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

He absolutely got outcoached by a rookie head coach in Edmonton in the playoffs.

So it wasn't at all a case of McDavid and Draisaitl single handedly picking the team apart? I don't think Woodcroft deserves credit for winning a gong show, track meet of a series anymore than Sutter deserves any fault for the team losing. You're dreaming if you think a new coach (change for the sake of change) and a couple of good but not great prospects are going to jump in and turn this team into a true contender like they were last season.

This team could still turn the corner, but it's going to take patience and possibly the entire rest of the schedule for this group to hit its stride. I'm done with changing coaches just to change coaches, especially when you're likely downgrading in the long run.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

All three scoring at the rate they are at the ages they are in the AHL makes them grade a prospects.

They are outscoring Backlund and Mangiapane at the same ages.

They all deserve a shot.

They probably will not get one with Sutter.

Hockey has changed a tad since Backlund was in the AHL

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Hockey has changed a tad since Backlund was in the AHL

Still doesn't change the fact all three deserve more of an NHL look.

Nobody else has had the production that Zary, Phillips, and Pelletier have had at the AHL level in recent years and at least gotten a 10 game look.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

He absolutely got outcoached by a rookie head coach in Edmonton in the playoffs.

Ya I don't think so. What would another coach have done differently? Un shell-shock Markstrom? Playing Vladar would have been a roll of the dice.

And with respect what did Woody do? Tap McDavid and DryCycle on the shoulder every two minutes? A monkey in a tie could coach the Oilers.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Still doesn't change the fact all three deserve more of an NHL look.

Nobody else has had the production that Zary, Phillips, and Pelletier have had at the AHL level in recent years and at least gotten a 10 game look.

I'm a Sutter guy, but this has me baffled. What kind of message is this sending to our prospects?

[iggyloob12]

Hopefully the message is that it's not easy to make the NHL and that there's still a wide chasm between the two leagues? I think too much has been made of Pelletier not playing yet and Sutter not giving younger players a shot. Ruzicka has found a spot in the lineup over vets and same with Duehr. Pelletier will get his chance when the timing is right (post-loss or after someone plays really, really badly). Phillips will get his shot next year to prove to a team that he's more than an AHLer.

[DomeFoam]

Its a little baffling that Walker Duehr, while hasn't been bad in his time up, has somehow earned an extended look over the other guys. Pelts and Zary have over double the amount of points as him in the A. Big = GOOD baby!