Did Sutter change the system?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

$$$$$.

Ownership wants $$$$. You make less $$$$$ in rebuild, but if fans want true change, they need to reward rebuilds. That means stop paying the Flames until they commit to rebuild.

Yeah well ownership is dumb and I believe that a proper rebuild would earn them more money overall.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I see this as the best way to move forward. I like a lot of the players that I think we can move on from but I feel the best way to fix this is get younger and add a top prospect from this years draft. Ton's of high end prospects that drafting in the top 10 even if it is late top 10 can provide us with an all star. The nest way to do this is trade a few guys for picks and bring some guys up.

Toffoli - Pelletier
Backlund - Zary
Mangiapane - Coronato/Phillips
Tanev/Hanifin - Kylington (hopefully)
Markstrom - Wolf

I'm not suggesting we need to trade all of these guys but even some could drive us in the top 5 pick discussion. This won't happen but I'm ok to move any of these guys and be comfortable with the replacement we already have in the AHL. Cap savings is around $20 mil as well and it really doesn't destroy the team if the young guys play well

Backlund with young wingers coming up? I would make him Captain. Keep Tanev for the same reason and give him the A. The rest...bye, bye, wait out the Lucic contract, show the Head Coach the door, buy out Kylington, if he comes around offer him a PTO down the road.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I really don't think things would have felt bleaker if we took the rebuild route.

Things are as bleak as they could ever be right now with massive boat anchor contracts that have already aged poorly - one before the player has even played a game under it.

Even if we folded now, those contracts will prevent this team competing for the Cup for the next 7-8 years.

Yep this is the truly bad part. They rushed to re-sign players that had yet to play a single game for this team due to the summer optics. Huberdeau and Weegar both look like they're worth about half of the extensions they signed here.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

$$$$$.

Ownership wants $$$$. You make less $$$$$ in rebuild, but if fans want true change, they need to reward rebuilds. That means stop paying the Flames until they commit to rebuild.

Why commit to s afull rebuild before we even get to see what we have in the AHL? These kids are winning and now have dominated 2 years in a row.

I'm not suggesting any are superstars in the NHL but their ceiling is right there or better than guys like Backlund, Toffoli, Mangiapane, Coleman. Move who you can and call these guys up and see what happens? What if the team is as good but now you found yourself $20 mil in cap space?

Throw on top a bit of a slide in the short term and extra picks in the draft, you never know it could turn around very quickly. This draft is deep.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Yikes

Backlund with young wingers coming up? I would make him Captain. Keep Tanev for the same reason and give him the A. The rest...bye, bye, wait out the Lucic contract, show the Head Coach the door, buy out Kylington, if he comes around offer him a PTO down the road.

Backlund can't stay but if you can get a return he can go. Coleman is younger and signed longer so Backlund might get more and likely slide in play sooner.

If you can get rid of him fine keep him but he would be a great add for a team wanting to win now.

Tanev too. I could see teams lining up to get him. Why not? This team is loaded in vets so leadership is not an issue.

We need assets and youth now.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Why commit to s afull rebuild before we even get to see what we have in the AHL? These kids are winning and now have dominated 2 years in a row.

I'm not suggesting any are superstars in the NHL but their ceiling is right there or better than guys like Backlund, Toffoli, Mangiapane, Coleman. Move who you can and call these guys up and see what happens? What if the team is as good but now you found yourself $20 mil in cap space?

Throw on top a bit of a slide in the short term and extra picks in the draft, you never know it could turn around very quickly. This draft is deep.

The Flames have no interest in seeing what we have in the AHL.

[Burning Beard]

We are only half way into a season after a complete core change and talking rebuild. Who honestly thought it wouldn't take time for this team to find it's legs?

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The Flames have no interest in seeing what we have in the AHL.

I think that attitude might be singular.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

We are only half way into a season after a complete core change and talking rebuild. Who honestly thought it wouldn't take time for this team to find it's legs?

It's not surprising but this team really also doesn't have a lot of runway given the age of the core and how big contracts kick in next season.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It's not surprising but this team really also doesn't have a lot of runway given the age of the core and how big contracts kick in next season.

But is the runway 40 games?

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Backlund can stay but if you can get a return he can go. Coleman is younger and signed longer so Backlund might get more and likely slide in play sooner.

If you can get rid of him fine keep him but he would be a great add for a team wanting to win now.

Tanev too. I could see teams lining up to get him. Why not? This team is loaded in vets so leadership is not an issue.

We need assets and youth now.

Fair enough and I see your points but Backlund and Tanev.....that would hurt.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

But is the runway 40 games?

I think it might be. At the very least, beyond that timeframe, it diminishes significantly - short of somebody like Zary or Pelletier going Tage Thompson on us.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Yep this is the truly bad part. They rushed to re-sign players that had yet to play a single game for this team due to the summer optics. Huberdeau and Weegar both look like they're worth about half of the extensions they signed here.

I'm not suggesting that your assessment of Weegar and Huberdeau is wrong. But why would you only factor in a sample size of 40 games and ignore the previous few hundred? Especially with Huberdeau. Hard to say move forward they won't get at least a little better based on previous performance?

It's not like Florida is winning without them like they did with them.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Yikes

Fair enough and I see your points but Backlund and Tanev.....that would hurt.

It would in the short term but that is somewhat needed to get the high-end prospect. We already have prospects that can sub in but what if we get a new one that is way better than anyone we already have? Who that is, hard to say until the draft but there are quite a few guys that rank higher than anyone we currently have

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Last year Flames were 6th in goals per game in the league.

This year they are 23rd.

How do people just ignore this most basic statistic and suggest it is all Markstrom?

Markstrom better start scoring goals soon. Because the skaters aren’t going to do it.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Yep this is the truly bad part. They rushed to re-sign players that had yet to play a single game for this team due to the summer optics. Huberdeau and Weegar both look like they're worth about half of the extensions they signed here.

Weegar is fine. If he's overpaid it's perhaps going to be by about 750K max.
Take a look what dmen around the league are making.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

It would in the short term but that is somewhat needed to get the high-end prospect. We already have prospects that can sub in but what if we get a new one that is way better than anyone we already have? Who that is, hard to say until the draft but there are quite a few guys that rank higher than anyone we currently have

It would be nice to get a good look at a few of the Wranglers in the show on and off...only one way to get a look into the future assets but grumpy needs to be gone for that to happen me thinks.

[Spinach]

Sutter knows how to build a winner, eh? His Winter of Discontent in 2010 as Flames' GM says otherwise.

If his coaching recipe is to be the 8th seed and pull off stunning upsets on the way to the Cup, or to come back from a 3-0 series deficit on the way to another, then we need a new chef.

That's kind of tongue-in-cheek, as the guy obviously did a fine job with those teams, and there's no asterisk beside his Cup wins in LA. Still, barely squeaking into the playoffs and pulling off monumental series comebacks are not a blueprint most teams would follow.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Weegar is fine. If he's overpaid it's perhaps going to be by about 750K max.
Take a look what dmen around the league are making.

Weeger is friggin awesome, one of the best defenders in the game and we got him for basically nothing.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Spinach

Sutter knows how to build a winner, eh? His Winter of Discontent in 2010 as Flames' GM says otherwise.

If his coaching recipe is to be the 8th seed and pull off stunning upsets on the way to the Cup, or to come back from a 3-0 series deficit on the way to another, then we need a new chef.

That's kind of tongue-in-cheek, as the guy obviously did a fine job with those teams, and there's no asterisk beside his Cup wins in LA. Still, barely squeaking into the playoffs and pulling off monumental series comebacks are not a blueprint most teams would follow.

Sutter has Jonathan Quick to thank for his cups and Kipper to thank for "the run"...period.