Does Treliving deserve to be extended?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Or the 3rd option, trade Gaudreau before the 2021 season began and it was known that he was going to ride out the season as a pending UFA. We knew for a while that Gaudreau wasn't going to negotiate during the season and that was a red flag. He would have brought a nice haul with a full season left on his contract.

His poor performance the prior 2.5 seasons, the red flags, and awful playoff performance and you are trading him at a all time low value.

Keeping him everyone won in the end even if we didn't get the job done. We finished 1st in our division won a round, if our goalie didn't have a complete meltdown we probably make it to round 3 and who knows. Johnny had a career year that hasn't been seen in a long time, cashed in.

We trade him for Morgan Frost and a 1st and we are probably picking in the lottery.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's kind of funny but the Treliving situation kind of mirrors the Gaudreau situation. Contracts left to expire and talks expected to happen after the season. Maybe he loves his job and the Flames ownership loves him and this is all just a formality. However if the Flames ownership has told him they will get back to him at the end of the season then why wouldn't he want to take a look at what's available. Why would he take Murray Edwards 3 year extension at likely a lower than average GM salary if the Leafs are willing to give him 5 years and make him one of the highest paid GM's in the league? It's definitely going to be an interesting scenario that could play out several ways.

Yeah, another team will give him a job, so why rush from his side. If the Flames make the playoffs and win a round or two, GM of the year will be his.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

Some good points and ownership has almost always gone the cheaper route in hiring coaches and gms in the past. The intriguing part is why Sutter was given an extension right away and Tre is left without one right now. Could Sutter be given both roles again. This could get interesting and we have seen this movie before. Would we want to see the same movie again

I keep saying, if Treliving goes Mike Futa arrives. He won a cup with Sutter, is doing "consulting" for the Canes which is basically pro scouting from your couch, and he'd probably come in for cheap and carry water for Darryl.

If thats the direction ownership wants to go. Which is giving Darryl more authority without making him GM.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Clearly most GM's would have signed him or traded him for assets. The Tavares/Gaudreau situation of letting him play out his contract and losing him for nothing is pretty rare for a reason.

That's only rare as a result.

Lots of players have played out the final season and signed with the existing team.

Gaudreau gave them every indication that he was on that list, not the exodus list.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

The only "pick bleeding" I can think of is trading to get Hamonic and Elliott. In hindsight those were mistakes, but that's going back 5-6 years.

A 2nd for Lazar
A 2nd and a 3rd for Jarnkrok
A 1st to offload monahan
A 3rd for Smith
A 4th for Fantenberg
A 3rd for Gustaffsson
A 4th for Forbort
A 1st and two seconds for Hamilton, when Barzal, Connor, Chabot were all available at that first alone. More importantly, this was before a season the Flames should have been conservative as it was Auston Matthews' draft season, Sam Bennett's rookie season, and the team was in only year 3 of a rebuild, witj the previous year even hurting their draft position.

It's not just draft picks though. Tre also bled cap space and dollars with more buyouts than any of his predecessors. This from a guy who wouldn't pay an extra 500k to 1M to sign a star like Gaudreau to an 8 year deal ehen he was an RFA. The kind of money he throws at guys like Kevin Rooney who no sane person would offer a 1 way to.

[mile]

Treliving Q&A with Francis today:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...flames-are-at/

SN: Have you started talks on your contract, which expires at season’s end?


BT: We’ve had some conversations. We’ll see where it gets to.

Also mentioned he hasn't given up on a Kylington return this season

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

A 1st and two seconds for Hamilton, when Barzal, Connor, Chabot were all available at that first alone. More importantly, this was before a season the Flames should have been conservative as it was Auston Matthews' draft season, Sam Bennett's rookie season, and the team was in only year 3 of a rebuild, witj the previous year even hurting their draft position.

It's not just draft picks though. Tre also bled cap space and dollars with more buyouts than any of his predecessors. This from a guy who wouldn't pay an extra 500k to 1M to sign a star like Gaudreau to an 8 year deal ehen he was an RFA.

The Hamilton trade is a weird once pick on. Late first for a top four offensive dman is a trade you make everyday. Even with hindsight it doesn't look bad, Lindholm + Hanifin isn't bad value for Barzal, Connor, or Chabot.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by mile

Treliving Q&A with Francis today:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...flames-are-at/



Also mentioned he hasn't given up on a Kylington return this season

That Kylington situation is going to approach a need for a conclusion soon. Uncomfortable but something will need to be decided by both parties.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

A 2nd for Lazar
A 2nd and a 3rd for Jarnkrok
A 1st to offload monahan
A 3rd for Smith
A 4th for Fantenberg
A 3rd for Gustaffsson
A 4th for Forbort
A 1st and two seconds for Hamilton, when Barzal, Connor, Chabot were all available at that first alone. More importantly, this was before a season the Flames should have been conservative as it was Auston Matthews' draft season, Sam Bennett's rookie season, and the team was in only year 3 of a rebuild, witj the previous year even hurting their draft position.

It's not just draft picks though. Tre also bled cap space and dollars with more buyouts than any of his predecessors. This from a guy who wouldn't pay an extra 500k to 1M to sign a star like Gaudreau to an 8 year deal ehen he was an RFA. The kind of money he throws at guys like Kevin Rooney who no sane person would offer a 1 way to.

Jarnkrok - The team was clearly a contender and fans were clamouring for Tre to bring this player in to bolster the team's center depth. This deadline pickup made perfect sense at the time that it was made.

Monahan - No brainer as it made it possible to bring in Kadri. No way to know if Monahan would be able to bounce back from his major surgeries.

The Hamilton trade eventually became Lindy & Hanifin so no complaints there.

The others sure, but they were all 3rds or later aside from the Lazar trade.

Again I'm not claiming that mistakes weren't made, but his work in the past 5 years has been a lot better than his work prior to that. Also we need to take into account that the direction to avoid rebuilding and keep the team in the playoffs every year is probably commanded from ownership.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I voted yes because there isn’t anyone else vacant out there that is better.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Jarnkrok - The team was clearly a contender and fans were clamouring for Tre to bring this player in to bolster the team's center depth. This deadline pickup made perfect sense at the time that it was made.

A little revisionist. Ruzicka had been settling in nicely in the top 9 at the centre position, and Jarnkrok played almost his entire career at wing.

Monahan - No brainer as it made it possible to bring in Kadri. No way to know if Monahan would be able to bounce back from his major surgeries.

How is that a no-brainer? Kadri is a 32 year old who will have term and cap hit well past his expiry date - no one gives up a 1st round for that. Even if Monahan was done, he could have been LTIR'd. More importantly with us losing Tkachuk and Huberdeau, and this being the Connor Bedard draft season, there was no better opportunity to raise Monahan"s volume, if not to positive, at least to net neutral.

The others sure, but they were all 3rds or later aside from the Lazar trade.

Guys like Kylington (two thirds traded for a late second) Mangiapane(6th), Ruzicka (4th), Gaudreau (4th), Kulak, (4th), Ferland (5th), and even Fox (3rd) were drafted by the Flames with 3rds or later. Let's not pretend those picks are worthless.

Also we need to take into account that the direction to avoid rebuilding and keep the team in the playoffs every year is probably commanded from ownership.

The Flames entered a rebuild in 2013 when they traded Iginla and Bouwmeester. Are you suggesting ownership was not on board? Or are you suggesting ownership legitimately thought the rebuild was officially over after Sean Monahan had a 60 point season while being completely out-classed by Getzlaf in the playoffs?

[Bingo]

I think hand picking trades that didn't turn out the way the team wishes (didn't advance in the playoffs) doesn't really serve the purpose unless you include all of them, and the picks coming in.

The bigger issue to me was the net loss of picks supporting a core that I didn't like at all, but surprised me last season.

Moving picks for Zadorov and Vladar are great trades. Moving Rittich and Frolik for picks are a good piece of business.

I think you have to look at all of it.

[Flamesfan05]

The question is after 8 years, did his team come close to winning anything? Is the team currently in position to win moving forward?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

The question is after 8 years, did his team come close to winning anything? Is the team currently in position to win moving forward?

Well the won two divisions and a playoff series last year.

So "win anything" has been accomplished.

If you mean win a cup and if not you fail, then sure, but they're likely smarter than that.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Well the won two divisions and a playoff series last year.

So "win anything" has been accomplished.

If you mean win a cup and if not you fail, then sure, but they're likely smarter than that.

I am 50/50 on Treliving at this point

The team’s performance at the end of this year will tip the scale for me

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

A little revisionist. Ruzicka had been settling in nicely in the top 9 at the centre position, and Jarnkrok played almost his entire career at wing.

Ruzicka showed some signs of having good potential last season, but ultimately was still a young, inconsistent NHLer. The team wasn't comfortable going into the playoffs with only 2 experienced forwards who could play center. The pickup made sense.

How is that a no-brainer? Kadri is a 32 year old who will have term and cap hit well past his expiry date - no one gives up a 1st round for that. Even if Monahan was done, he could have been LTIR'd. More importantly with us losing Tkachuk and Huberdeau, and this being the Connor Bedard draft season, there was no better opportunity to raise Monahan"s volume, if not to positive, at least to net neutral.

The Flames decided they were going all-in and trying to win now, period. Once you make that decision, you have to make sure you have a roster that can contend. Kadri coming off a monster season and making a big impact in the playoffs for the cup champs, it made all the sense in the world to bring him on board.

Guys like Kylington (two thirds traded for a late second) Mangiapane(6th), Ruzicka (4th), Gaudreau (4th), Kulak, (4th), Ferland (5th), and even Fox (3rd) were drafted by the Flames with 3rds or later. Let's not pretend those picks are worthless.

I never said they were worthless. But when you're in a playoff spot come the deadline and you strongly believe you're in a position to do damage, you improve your team's depth even if it comes at the cost of picks. It's typical behavior and every team has done it at some point. I'm not saying I agree with every move Tre has made, I'm just saying this "bled picks for mediocrity" narrative is very overblown. At some point the team on the ice has to perform the way they're capable of instead of constantly underachieving.

The Flames entered a rebuild in 2013 when they traded Iginla and Bouwmeester. Are you suggesting ownership was not on board? Or are you suggesting ownership legitimately thought the rebuild was officially over after Sean Monahan had a 60 point season while being completely out-classed by Getzlaf in the playoffs?

They entered a rebuild when their hand was more or less forced, but even then it wasn't a full, patient, proper rebuild. They exited prematurely, which turned out to be a big mistake. Sometimes I wonder how much Tre's hands may have been tied during the time Burke was here...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

It’s very weird to have a lame duck GM heading into the trade deadline

It lends credence to the thought process it’s BT who may be looking to leave / has already informed the team this will be his last season

They waited until the last minute last go-round and then handed him a pretty decent extension.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

His poor performance the prior 2.5 seasons, the red flags, and awful playoff performance and you are trading him at a all time low value.

Keeping him everyone won in the end even if we didn't get the job done. We finished 1st in our division won a round, if our goalie didn't have a complete meltdown we probably make it to round 3 and who knows. Johnny had a career year that hasn't been seen in a long time, cashed in.

We trade him for Morgan Frost and a 1st and we are probably picking in the lottery.

I think you are really under estimating what Gaudreau's trade value was prior to last season. It maybe wasn't that of a 115 point player, but that is moot anyway since he walked for nothing. Something is always more than nothing. You might remember just just a few months ago that Tkachuk outright said he was leaving as a free agent and had a list of like 3 or 4 teams, and Treliving still made a hockey trade out of it. Certainly Gaudreau's value with a full year on his contract was worth more than Frost and a 1st, especially if it was to a market where he would show interest in signing in.

You make it sound like Gaudreau fell off a cliff, but he was still one of the more productive players in the league. In the three seasons before last season, he had 206 points in 208 games. Only 14 players had more points than him over that period and it puts him right up there with Ovechkin, Stamkos, Zibanejad, Tavares, Mark Stone and Bergeron at that time. Could you imagine any of those players having the trade value of Frost and a 1st?

If only every player could suck that bad during their "down" years.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It maybe wasn't that of a 115 point player, but that is moot anyway since he walked for nothing. Something is always more than nothing.

So NHL teams should trade every player who is a year from UFA? I'd say rolling the dice on Gaudreau for another year was worth more than the return he would have got,

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Mark Stone

I think you are over-estimating his trade value. The one player on that list that was actually traded returned Lindberg, Brannstrom, and a second, which might actually be worse than Frost and a 1st.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I wonder if he's grown tired of ownership and wants to test the waters. His results have been mixed but I think he's pretty well regarded around the league because of how hard he works. I also wonder if his results would be better with more hands off ownership.

Haven't read the rest of the posts but I'm guessing it's already been shared already but your speculation is wrong (it wasn't widely reported at the time so you likely just missed it and didn't know) since in his last extension, he requested the condition that he be the only decision maker as GM, which implies there was likely people he had to align on with before, but that is no longer the case on the current contract.