[Trade] Eichel + 3rd to Vegas for Tuch, Krebs, 1st, 3rd

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Eichel would not be successful playing on a Darryl Sutter team. The lack of transition and speed would kill Eichel and the dump and chase would not use his skills. We've heard it been said from Huberdeau, the thing that is hurting him is the lack of speed at which the game is being played in Calgary. Not many current NHL stars would be successful in this plough horse system. I have no idea why Sutter changed things up from last year when the game was all about speed and transition. The Oilers series broke him.

I sure hope the Oilers series didn't change his approach/system

if they had half decent goaltending alone the series probably goes 7 and it's a coin flip

they don't need any kind of radical change from exactly what they were doing last season. the system was sound, the top players just wilted

[Joborule]

I wouldn't say the system has changed at all. It's simply the case the top line isn't producing anything at all, and the secondary scoring isn't picking up the slack. Last season on the tail end of the season, I feel the secondary scoring wasn't really prevalent either. The Johnny/Tkachuk line was our McDavid/Driastal. It was the offense.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I wouldn't say the system has changed at all. It's simply the case the top line isn't producing anything at all, and the secondary scoring isn't picking up the slack. Last season on the tail end of the season, I feel the secondary scoring wasn't really prevalent either. The Johnny/Tkachuk line was our McDavid/Driastal. It was the offense.

They played with more pace and at a higher tempo last year. The transition game was significantly better than it is now.

I am amazed that people don't remember this, as prior to last year, everyone was complaining about how slow the team was. I was among the group saying they aren't slow, they just played slow. Then Sutter gets them playing up-tempo and suddenly they look like a fast team. So it was clear that they weren't slow, they were just, in fact playing slow.

Now this year, they are back to the painfully slow, zone to zone, to zone play that makes it so easy for the other team to defend. And fans are right back to calling the team slow.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I wouldn't say the system has changed at all. It's simply the case the top line isn't producing anything at all, and the secondary scoring isn't picking up the slack. Last season on the tail end of the season, I feel the secondary scoring wasn't really prevalent either. The Johnny/Tkachuk line was our McDavid/Driastal. It was the offense.

I definitely see a different system this year. Last year was puck possession and carrying the puck into the offensive zone. This year looks like Geoff Ward hockey, no pace, dump and chase, play to be back to defend.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I definitely see a different system this year. Last year was puck possession and carrying the puck into the offensive zone. This year looks like Geoff Ward hockey, no pace, dump and chase, play to be back to defend.

I don’t agree with this. That was how our elite 1st line operated - it was not how our depth operated behind that first line. Now, as Sutter has said countless times, we don’t have that elite 1st line anymore because 2/3rds of it bailed on the organization. So now we have 4 lines playing this way, rather than just 3.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don’t agree with this. That was how our elite 1st line operated - it was not how our depth operated behind that first line. Now, as Sutter has said countless times, we don’t have that elite 1st line anymore because 2/3rds of it bailed on the organization. So now we have 4 lines playing this way, rather than just 3.

I don't think so when I watch the way they played last year. Mangiapane does not score 35 goals playing in a dump and chase system.

[Strange Brew]

Mangiapane looks like the player from last years second half IMO.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don’t agree with this. That was how our elite 1st line operated - it was not how our depth operated behind that first line. Now, as Sutter has said countless times, we don’t have that elite 1st line anymore because 2/3rds of it bailed on the organization. So now we have 4 lines playing this way, rather than just 3.

Maybe if they were allowed to play like an elite line, they could be an elite line

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Mangiapane looks like the player from last years second half IMO.

I've always thought he was a 20 - 25 goal guy. He just happened to be on a good team last year. That's who he is. He should be on the third line and have some PP time.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

I've always thought he was a 20 - 25 goal guy. He just happened to be on a good team last year. That's who he is. He should be on the third line and have some PP time.

Yeah, I didn't like the contract but what do you do?, WC MVP and 35 goals gets you paid, can only hope he gets closer to 30 rather than 20 going forward.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Yeah, I didn't like the contract but what do you do?, WC MVP and 35 goals gets you paid, can only hope he gets closer to 30 rather than 20 going forward.

Mangiapane’s contract is great - it’s only three years. He’s not a bad player, and he does a lot of grunt work.

Imagine if it was six. Or eight.

Now, just for fun, imagine Jack Eichel taking passes from Jonathan Huberdeau.

Friggen Krebs.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Yeah, I didn't like the contract but what do you do?, WC MVP and 35 goals gets you paid, can only hope he gets closer to 30 rather than 20 going forward.

Yeah, I knew we were screwed on Mangianpane's next contract as soon as we got half way through last season. It is what it is. He exploded in an unsustainable way in the first third of the season.

That start was easily worth $2-$3mil per year on his next contract. But at the same time when he regressed to the mean, it's hard to put that into a new contract offer.

He got paid for the whole season and it will be hard for him to ever replicate what he did. Add that to Coleman and we've got serious money tied up in "top 6" forwards that don't threaten offensively game in and game out, when we need another game breaker to be a serious contender in this window in the $8-$10mil range.

We likely won't have that money or trade bait equivelant in any way, shape or form at this point, when we've gone all in for the next 3-4 years. Further solidified by our defence situation not allowing us to trade from a position of strength.

[jayswin]

Last year was the aligning of the stars - Mangianpane explodes, contributing to becoming a top western team, Gaudreau and Tkachuk playing their hearts out for new contracts in new locations, Markstrom puts in a vezina finalist performance.

Literally everything that could have gone right, went right last year. This year is the opposite. We have a struggling starter (which kills even the best laid plans and line-ups) and players that just signed retirement contracts, and are trying to fit in on a new team with a coach that has one way to play "my way or the highway".

They're paid now, and are trying to figure out exactly what "my way" is, walking on eggshells instead of playing loose and free. Looking at it now, this was almost assuredly going to be a throw away year. Hopefully we can make a serious trade when the D situation gets sorted out (players back, especially Oliver) and try again next year.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Last year was the aligning of the stars -

Also we had no injuries through the entire season until the playoffs

[saillias]

Originally Posted by AT77

Should have traded for Eichel, probably would have been able to keep Gaudreau then, and maybe even Tkachuk, and we wouldn’t be in this hell hole of a position we’re in now. Instead we’d have a franchise #1C with two elite wingers and would be a perennial cup contender for years to come.

And yet people on here were scared to trade for him due to his surgery…and now he’s back to his PPG + form.

Once again, the homers on here were wrong lol.

For someone bringing up ancient history you should know the history. Our package included Tkachuk buddy. Word was from insiders that Buffalo didn't think the players in our package wanted to be there which is why they preferred Vegas. Remember the anger towards Weekes?

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by saillias

For someone bringing up ancient history you should know the history. Our package included Tkachuk buddy. Word was from insiders that Buffalo didn't think the players in our package wanted to be there which is why they preferred Vegas. Remember the anger towards Weekes?

Tkachuk was 100000% in the Flames Final offer. Buffalo didn’t think Chucky would sign a long term deal at reasonable number (Probably correct) and Vegas put in Krebs.

Weekes only popped off because it was HUGE news for US Hockey Market.

Johnny feeding Eichel was the plan.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They played with more pace and at a higher tempo last year. The transition game was significantly better than it is now.

I am amazed that people don't remember this, as prior to last year, everyone was complaining about how slow the team was. I was among the group saying they aren't slow, they just played slow. Then Sutter gets them playing up-tempo and suddenly they look like a fast team. So it was clear that they weren't slow, they were just, in fact playing slow.

Now this year, they are back to the painfully slow, zone to zone, to zone play that makes it so easy for the other team to defend. And fans are right back to calling the team slow.

This is 1000% true. The slow play was the first thing that Darryl griped about when he came here, and that's the main thing we need to fix now. There's a lot of new guys getting used to things.

[Jay Random]

Matthew Tkachuk: age 25, 29 GP, 14-25-39, cap hit $9,500,000.

Jack Eichel: age 26, 27 GP, 13-16-29, cap hit $10,000,000.

And Eichel is once again on IR.

Now explain to me once again how the Flames were idiots not to trade Tkachuk++ for Eichel.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Matthew Tkachuk: age 25, 29 GP, 14-25-39, cap hit $9,500,000.

Jack Eichel: age 26, 27 GP, 13-16-29, cap hit $10,000,000.

And Eichel is once again on IR.

Now explain to me once again how the Flames were idiots not to trade Tkachuk++ for Eichel.

Tkachuk’s cap hit ain’t 9.5m on any other team not located in Florida, Texas, or Nevada.

It still would have been Tkachuk++ because of the uncertainty of his next deal. The Flames were never getting him at 9.5m either. Try 10.75-11.25m.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Matthew Tkachuk: age 25, 29 GP, 14-25-39, cap hit $9,500,000.

Jack Eichel: age 26, 27 GP, 13-16-29, cap hit $10,000,000.

And Eichel is once again on IR.

Now explain to me once again how the Flames were idiots not to trade Tkachuk++ for Eichel.

Eichel, however has had a really strong start to this season before he was hurt.

Vegas are winning, he has 29 points, 27 games and is plus 17.

Doesn't really matter as Buffalo preferred Sabres offer and made a decent trade