2022 Toronto Blue Jays Off-season Thread

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Sounds like Buck will be back next season, but he really doesn't sound happy with Tabler being let go.

Specifically, the former catcher and manager said he was stunned when Rogers jettisoned one of his long-time on-air partners, Pat Tabler.

“(Tabler) was blindsided by this as I was,” Martinez said on the latest episode of the popular podcast. “We didn’t see it coming. We were both at the end of a contract and his wasn’t picked up.

“It’s very, very sad. It kind of reflects the world today where experience isn’t valued and consistency isn’t valued and loyalty isn’t valued. It was a sad call when I heard that Pat had not been renewed for next year.

“Pat may have been the best partner I’ve ever had. Worked hard. Prepared. Humble. Wanted to bring the best to the broadcast every night.”

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseba...lers-departure

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Was just coming to post this.

Yeah, the guy wasn't signed to be the 4th OF. He will play everyday if he's healthy and not a dumpster fire.

BTW his career OPS at Rogers is 0.833


Keirmaier in CF, Springer in RF is hugely improved outfield defense.

I bet they grab a defense first 4th OFer now to use as a defensive replacement late in games for Gurriel who is still a mess out there.

They also still have 3 catchers, and I could see Moreno being used as an OFer from time to time if they keep all three of them.

Kiermaier as an everyday OF makes me cringe, honestly. When he's on base great, but his defense isn't going to make that much of a difference. I want to see 1-9 be a threat to get on base. While he may not be a cliff dive in the lineup, he's not as good as Teoscar at the plate. They're really banking on a bounce back year along with him tearing up the basepads. Head scratcher for a championship calibre team.

[Kasi]

Plenty of teams even championship teams like Houston run out offence negative players. For example Maldonado for Houston at catcher got 400ab. Dodgers gave full at bats to Bellinger who can’t hit anymore. Yankees ran out some stinkers on the offensive side like Josh and Falefa. It’s not the end of the world to not have a threat at every spot. I thinking getting Teoscars flubs out of the OF and his mentality out of the clubhouse has some value. Moving Springer to right has more value. I think overall that will work fine especially if they can get another OF who can hit LH.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Kiermaier as an everyday OF makes me cringe, honestly. When he's on base great, but his defense isn't going to make that much of a difference. I want to see 1-9 be a threat to get on base. While he may not be a cliff dive in the lineup, he's not as good as Teoscar at the plate. They're really banking on a bounce back year along with him tearing up the basepads. Head scratcher for a championship calibre team.

Well, the perennial contender Dodgers disagree. Not only did they trot Bellinger out there on a regular basis, but...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1601646204961423361


Also:

Most defensive runs saved since 2015:

1. Kevin Kiermaier 133
2. Andrelton Simmons 133
3. Mookie Betts 127
4. Nolan Arenado 125

Next closest: 80

IMO the Jays need some of that a lot more than another 120 wRC+ batter who makes terrible decisions constantly on the base paths and in the field.

[Jiggy_12]

Well I thought this was interesting, this article makes some excellent points as to why KK is a pretty good addition - afterall

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article...ith-blue-jays/

I’m definitely digesting this a lot easier now

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Well, the perennial contender Dodgers disagree. Not only did they trot Bellinger out there on a regular basis, but...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1601646204961423361


Also:

Most defensive runs saved since 2015:

1. Kevin Kiermaier 133
2. Andrelton Simmons 133
3. Mookie Betts 127
4. Nolan Arenado 125

Next closest: 80

IMO the Jays need some of that a lot more than another 120 wRC+ batter who makes terrible decisions constantly on the base paths and in the field.

Agreed, but thats going back too far. Stats from 2020-2022 would be a better judge of recent play and a projectable play forward.

[browna]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Sounds like Buck will be back next season, but he really doesn't sound happy with Tabler being let go.



https://torontosun.com/sports/baseba...lers-departure

Usual Rogers, with the fact they had to replace Buck, and Jamie Campbell’s illness, the replacements this year that got a chance did well enough and are,most important, coming in a lot cheaper.

Buck is likely done this after this year and this move probably seals it.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Siddall, in my opinion, was able to show that he could be an improvement over Tabler.

It really too bad that Tabler was blindsided by the decision as communication should have likely been a lot better. He was there for a long time and they should worked with him to give him a more graceful exit.

[Parallex]

Honestly... Buck and Tabler aren't very good.

I suppose I wouldn't mind keeping Buck around to do color since he's a bit of an amusing character but I'd rather he not call games.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

Well I thought this was interesting, this article makes some excellent points as to why KK is a pretty good addition - afterall

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article...ith-blue-jays/

I’m definitely digesting this a lot easier now

I'm not. Even thinking optimistically Replacing Teoscar with KK is a push (and more likely an overall downgrade).

That article is propaganda... I mean ####... they pointed to all the PA that Tapia, Zimmer and JBJ got as justification for having his bat in line-up on the reg. As if those three guys were supposed to get that many plate appearances. They got that many PA because folk got injured and guess what, injuries will still happen, and not the least likely person to be injured at any given moment is Kevin Kiermaier himself.

The Jays need a big LH bat still.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I'm not. Even thinking optimistically Replacing Teoscar with KK is a push (and more likely an overall downgrade).

That article is propaganda... I mean ####... they pointed to all the PA that Tapia, Zimmer and JBJ got as justification for having his bat in line-up on the reg. As if those three guys were supposed to get that many plate appearances. They got that many PA because folk got injured and guess what, injuries will still happen, and not the least likely person to be injured at any given moment is Kevin Kiermaier himself.

The Jays need a big LH bat still.

Totally propaganda. I know some here are looking at the glass half full on the deal, but he falls short for getting on base. With injury rehab they really have to be high on his full recovery to even be a daily OFer. I was never a Teoscar fan from a discipline perspective, and was happy he was the odd man out so far, but when he was confident on on his streak he would deliver. Kiermaier will be average at best if he lives up to expectations. We'll see how fast he becomes one of the scapegoats if he can't get on base.

[Kasi]

It really doesn’t matter if he doesn’t get on base. To coin the Rock “it doesn’t matter!”. KK in CF and Springer in right is that much better defensively that it buys back all they lose offensively. I mean sure I’ll miss his streaks and smile and positive personality but I am not going to miss the flubs. And sure it’s propaganda but everything preseason is. How many best shape of their life stories have we heard over the years in all sports. He’ll never be a scapegoat here if he makes flashy defensive plays and we know he will make those.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Kasi

It really doesn’t matter if he doesn’t get on base. To coin the Rock “it doesn’t matter!”. KK in CF and Springer in right is that much better defensively that it buys back all they lose offensively. I mean sure I’ll miss his streaks and smile and positive personality but I am not going to miss the flubs. And sure it’s propaganda but everything preseason is. How many best shape of their life stories have we heard over the years in all sports. He’ll never be a scapegoat here if he makes flashy defensive plays and we know he will make those.

Agreed. Basically, Pillar 2.0.

Where I get worried is if (when) Springer gets injured for a period of time, the outfield needs more depth to handle that.

[Kasi]

Yeah Pillar other than one year couldn’t hit for beans yet everyone loved him. KK is still a better defender then peak Pillar was. I do agree they need a fourth OF option preferably one that plays CF. I mean Merrifield is that and he does have upside but I wouldn’t want to rely on him for 300 ABs at CF. I’m somewhat torn on what they should do. Probably best to sign a LH OF and hold the catcher trade trips til mid season. But if they want to do a trade I’m not sure whether I’d rather have them target a SP or an OF. Both have merit. Heck a stud reliever has merit too.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Kasi

It really doesn’t matter if he doesn’t get on base. To coin the Rock “it doesn’t matter!”. KK in CF and Springer in right is that much better defensively that it buys back all they lose offensively. I mean sure I’ll miss his streaks and smile and positive personality but I am not going to miss the flubs. And sure it’s propaganda but everything preseason is. How many best shape of their life stories have we heard over the years in all sports. He’ll never be a scapegoat here if he makes flashy defensive plays and we know he will make those.

The Pillar 2.0 moniker scares me a bit. I think OF defence is a bit overrated personally but that’s a bias I’m probably wrong on. I think good enough defence is good enough. When someone consistently is an out at the plate it kills morale. The iconic defensive play or the play that looks easy but isn’t is great and all, I just don’t know if it leads to runs scored as much as some of these stats make it out to be. I don’t know if KK will be bad. I just don’t like the bay upside and the great unknown. I personally like to see a lineup that can get on base and that’s my own bias I guess.

[Kasi]

It’s not like Teo is a certainty either. He’s getting older and his bat has cooled down since 2020. I don’t think poor hitting kills morale. Or if it does it doesn’t kill it as much as bad defence or bad pitching. (Blown leads) KK playing in CF sure is not as good hitting but I would guess he improves pitching and makes more key plays that save games to make up for the lackluster hitting.

[Roof-Daddy]

Kay was DFA'ed to make room for Bassitt on the 40 man.

No surprise there.

[KelVarnsen]

Who?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Kasi

It’s not like Teo is a certainty either. He’s getting older and his bat has cooled down since 2020. I don’t think poor hitting kills morale. Or if it does it doesn’t kill it as much as bad defence or bad pitching. (Blown leads) KK playing in CF sure is not as good hitting but I would guess he improves pitching and makes more key plays that save games to make up for the lackluster hitting.

Oh, I think they sold a bit low on Teo but he was wildly inconsistent. With him I think it's mental as his highs are very high, and his low slumps are very low. As a fan how could we not be happy they moved on from him? I'm just a little surprised that the upgrade wasn't really one. I'm totally fine with the philosophy of cheaping out on OF, but I don't think they've really upgraded yet overall as a team. There are still changes coming, but with every passing day more teams solidify their lineups. I do trust management but my initial thoughts after a sense of urgency at the end of last season, expected a bit more by this point. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy they've steered clear of all those big contracts this off-season, but I'm also not too happy they've lost out on certain guys like Kenley.

[Kasi]

Even with that the Jays have like a top five payroll which is pretty crazy. They are spending and thankfully next year have 50-60 million coming off since they need some of that for extensions. I would guess there is a couple more minor moves to get an OF and SP. Maybe a trade but not likely.