Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Yikes

Yep, my side was all heavy downstream. You are a Geologist...your opinion on future conventional finds in Alberta? Others that I know say that the Province is a pin cushion...nothing left to find on the conventional oil side.

There is still significant work available for geologists in the patch. It’s not all finding new reserves.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The election is 6 months away, you don't go laying out your plan that far ahead. It's fine to attack Smith on her ridiculous positions, her gaffes, her associations with the mentally deficient. This is who she is, and going after it is fair game. When we get to a month out, that's when you roll out ideas. Not now.

Notley should be way ahead in the polls but she's not, and that's my concern. You say now is not the time to roll out ideas and yet Smith is doing it now
and for whatever reason is rising in the polls. Think back to the TV spot where Smith outlined how she was going to help Albertans, Notley used her time to offer nothing in return except to attack Smith. I disagree with your stance and say now is the time to fight back and offer alternatives to what Smith is presenting.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Dion

Notley should be way ahead in the polls but she's not, and that's my concern. You say now is not the time to roll out ideas and yet Smith is doing it now
and for whatever reason is rising in the polls. Think back to the TV spot where Smith outlined how she was going to help Albertans, Notley used her time to offer nothing in return except to attack Smith. I disagree with your stance and say now is the time to fight back and offer alternatives to what Smith is presenting.

Smith is rising in polls because the vast majority of people lack critical thinking skills and believe conservatives = good for economy and ndp = bad for economy based on...well no good reason

You cant reason a person out of a position they didnt reason themselves into

[Faust]

Braid: Not a pretty picture — Smith skips unveiling of Notley portrait, exposing hostilities:

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...ng-hostilities

[Dion]

Originally Posted by stone hands

Smith is rising in polls because the vast majority of people lack critical thinking skills and believe conservatives = good for economy and ndp = bad for economy based on...well no good reason

You cant reason a person out of a position they didnt reason themselves into

Albertans need to hear an alternative to what Smith if offering. Something that will give voters pause for thought, especially those who you say lack critical thinking. Waiting until election time might be to late.

[Faust]

Don Braid @DonBraid

When Notley was premier, she attended unveiling of portraits of three former PC premiers - Alison Redford, Dave Hancock and Jim Prentice. #yyc #yeg #AbLeg #abpoli #cdnpoli #yyccc

https://twitter.com/donbraid/status/...289042945?s=21

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Dion

Albertans need to hear an alternative to what Smith if offering. Something that will give voters pause for thought, especially those who you say lack critical thinking. Waiting until election time might be to late.

As has already been pointed out, these things are available on their website and are often discussed on social media. Much of the criticism you’re directing at Notley is focused on times where she is specifically asked about UCP decisions and policies as the official opposition. It’s literally her job.

I have no doubt there will be much more opportunity for it as the election nears, and I fully agree as I too want more of it, but painting it like there’s none of it is (like Makarov mentioned earlier) just the same tired thing you did last election on your way to voting for the UCP. Instead of whining there isn’t enough, why aren’t you spending your time sharing what positives there are?

It’s also a bit ridiculous to say it “might be too late” and cite Smith rising in the polls. Conservatives have run up the polls and even led prior to elections federally countless times recently. Who runs the country and keeps winning elections?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

As has already been pointed out, these things are available on their website and are often discussed on social media. Much of the criticism you’re directing at Notley is focused on times where she is specifically asked about UCP decisions and policies as the official opposition. It’s literally her job.

I'm not saying it's not her job to attack Smith and her policies, just give us some tidbits as an alternative. Most voters probably don't go a parties website for details.

I have no doubt there will be much more opportunity for it as the election nears, and I fully agree as I too want more of it, but painting it like there’s none of it is (like Makarov mentioned earlier) just the same tired thing you did last election on your way to voting for the UCP. Instead of whining there isn’t enough, why aren’t you spending your time sharing what positives there are?

It's not whining, it's a valid concern that I have.

I don't need to share the positives to posters here who are going to vote NDP during the next election. I've tried with Yoho who seems to be a UCP supporter but that poster is unreachable.

It’s also a bit ridiculous to say it “might be too late” and cite Smith rising in the polls. Conservatives have run up the polls and even led prior to elections federally countless times recently. Who runs the country and keeps winning elections?

Judging by the way voters voted in the last election, it might not be ridiculous to say such a thing. Kenney sold a bill of goods to Albertans and Smith is doing it right now. I don't want her as Premier but it may just happen.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Dion

I'm not saying it's not her job to attack Smith and her policies, just give us some tidbits as an alternative. Most voters probably don't go a parties website for details.



It's not whining, it's a valid concern that I have.

I don't need to share the positives to posters here who are going to vote NDP during the next election. I've tried with Yoho who seems to be a UCP supporter but that poster is unreachable.



Judging by the way voters voted in the last election, it might not be ridiculous to say such a thing. Kenney sold a bill of goods to Albertans and Smith is doing it right now. I don't want her as Premier but it may just happen.

You won’t share the things you support the NDP/Notley for to posters because you don’t think it will have any impact but you’re sharing your concerns with the NDP/Notley because… ?

Not saying you have to, but what’s the reason for one and not the other?

[Duruss]

Notley may need to use mixed messaging when criticizing the UCP, point out the stupid and pivot to what the NDP would do instead in the same sentence. Make it hard to separate the critism from the alternative in headlines.

Danielle has an advantage in that as the premier every stupid thing she says is picked up and amplified via things like facebook. Voters are getting just hosed by her messaging and when dealing the typical uninformed voter that can really matter.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You won’t share the things you support the NDP/Notley for to posters because you don’t think it will have any impact but you’re sharing your concerns with the NDP/Notley because… ?

Not saying you have to, but what’s the reason for one and not the other?

By sharing I would have to pull a "Dion" by reposting things that are already posted. Plus I don't spend nearly as much time on this forum as many here do.

Notley cost the NDP the last election with her campaign of smear and fear as opposed to defending her record and telling Albertans what she will do for them. My fear is she'll do it again.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Dion

By sharing I would have to pull a "Dion" by reposting things that are already posted. Plus I don't spend nearly as much time on this forum as many here do.

Notley cost the NDP the last election with her campaign of smear and fear as opposed to defending her record and telling Albertans what she will do for them. My fear is she'll do it again.

That's hilariously not true and you know it. Kenney ran on a United right. That's all it takes for Alberta to vote blue.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Dion

By sharing I would have to pull a "Dion" by reposting things that are already posted. Plus I don't spend nearly as much time on this forum as many here do.

Notley cost the NDP the last election with her campaign of smear and fear as opposed to defending her record and telling Albertans what she will do for them. My fear is she'll do it again.

I think the UCP won because they were the shiny new toy and a bunch of lifelong PC voters, who maybe didn't support them when the NDP won, thought they would get things back to normal.

Did Rachel Notley do a lot of smear and fear? Sure I guess, but here's the thing....in a lot of ways she was 100% right.

Jason Kenney, and now Danielle Smith, have been doing everything they could do prove to people that the things Rachael Notley was saying were bang on.

The difference this time is that the message is "Look at what these clowns did" vs "Here's what these clowns are going to do".

Is that the way I like to see politics?
No, I would rather parties spend more time showing with they will do.
But that's where we are.
The fact is most people are not going to read platforms, and most people think they can't trust any politician (heck, Erik Estrada keeps saying he doesn't trust Rachael Notley despite the fact that she has a history of basically doing exactly what he wants her to do, and she's saying she'll keep doing it.) So "here's what I'm gonna do" rings hollow for a lot of people.
For low information voters, which is most voters , the NDP need to point out that the UCP have been terrible, and all signs point to them getting worse.

When you've got 30 seconds of air time to make a point, nuanced policy positions don't work. But a bullet list of:
-Terrible at covid
-Tried to sell provincial parks
-Tried to allow coal mining in sensitive areas
-Are currently lead by a convoy loving science denying unqualified talk show host who has a history of terrible leadership
Is easy to understand, is accurate, and is about as effective as you can be in 30 seconds.
It's better than "We're gonna work for Albertans" or the like, which is about all you can fit in a 30 second add.

The UCP will have to run adds CLAIMING all the terrible things Rachel Notley will do (despite any evidence to back it up).
The NDP will be able to run adds SHOWING all the terrible things the UCP DID do.

It sucks, but it's how it will be, but there is a difference between making claims about someone, and using facts to point out their established track record.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

As has already been pointed out, these things are available on their website and are often discussed on social media. Much of the criticism you’re directing at Notley is focused on times where she is specifically asked about UCP decisions and policies as the official opposition. It’s literally her job.

I think this point needs to be emphasized. If you look at the NDP and UCP social media, they seem to attack each other pretty evenly. I don't see Notley going any worse than Smith is. The difference is the mainstream coverage.

Dion is right that most people arn't going to be going to websites to check and it appears that all Notley does is attack. But that is because all the best sound bites are from this, so reporters are directly focusing on her responses and that's what the majority of Alberta will see. Add to that the "orange bad" mentality which the door knockers are seeing, and it is very hard to get any real messaging out.

She also doesn't have the ability to pull a Trudeau and refuse to engage in it, she has to respond to the UCPs decisions. But, I really do agree that they need to find a way to switch that messaging and focus on what the NDP will do differently. Her handlers need to get her to respond "We have already said we disagree with what the Premier is proposing because we intend to blah blah blah better." instead of continually engaging in the "they are ruining everything".

Its not easy to do and I am by no means a political science expert but Dion isn't wrong - I just think it is more nuanced with the mainstream reporting Notley only attacking and not present options. I just don't think the options are being reported.

[Torture]

I honestly don't think there's anything Rachel Notley's campaign could have done to win the last election. Could they have done some things better? Probably but it just wasn't winnable for the NDP.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by redhot25

https://twitter.com/user/status/1600886410328014848

https://twitter.com/user/status/1600886412022538240

https://twitter.com/user/status/1601055119986282496

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think Smith is an idiot and don't think is fit to run a province but I'm really disappointed that the alternative is also the devil.

Good lord.

[RedHot25]

https://globalnews.ca/news/9338407/d...election-2023/

The man who ran Leslyn Lewis’s campaign as she made two consecutive bids to become the federal Conservative leader is off to help Alberta Premier Danielle Smith try to win a provincial election in 2023.

Steve Outhouse confirms he will serve as campaign manager for Smith and the United Conservative Party when Albertans go to the polls next spring.

Outhouse is well known in Conservative circles and was Lewis’s campaign manager during the federal party leadership contest this year, which Pierre Poilievre won handily.

Lewis is a member of Parliament in rural Ontario who enjoyed the backing of the party’s social conservative base during her leadership runs in 2020 and 2022.

[Reaper]

Steve Outhouse

That's a little on the nose, don't you think?

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'd argue that the NDP should have replaced Notley. I have an extremely difficult time voting for a person that was anti-pipeline and anti-Alberta oil until she got in a position where she had to drop it for optics. She may be a more competent premier but we all know deep down she opposes the industry that puts food on the table for Albertans. It's no different than people that won't vote for Conservative because of their past position on abortion or LGBT issues.

For the record, I won't vote UPC because they consistently put short sighted ideas forwards, and forget that the plan is to have our governments endure indefinitely, therefore we have a government that needs constant re-investment. I see the libertarian ideas of the right wing as anti-conservative, and I am fundamentally a conservative person, who wants to see sustainable planning in our social infrastructure, economic development and resource utilization. Planning to conserve something as close as possible to the existing system for as long as possible, is the conservative choice.

As soon as the parties that call themselves conservative stop pretending that the environment, economic opportunity, rules and norms, public education and healthcare... don't matter, as long as you keep taxes low and don't tread on their misconception of what rights are, then I will be a reachable voter for the right wing. Right now I am not.

If they want to have conversations about how we can more effectively transition our fuel economy without disrupting incumbent businesses, or how we can save money on health care without contracting out services to private profit seeking institutions that will undermine our ability to offer the services at the same price/value in the future.... I am here for that argument.

I'm sympathetic to those on the left who think social issues are some great wedge they can use against the opposition, and fine with the people who want to fight for them. But I really believe there are more people like me, who are comfortable with with abortion, LGBTQ rights... but aren't really making voting decisions based on those ideas.

And even though I have generally supported the left, I am downright antithetical to the idea that a new energy or marijuana economy should be a vehicle to economic redistribution, I think mixing the two things up is a great way to ensure neither is successful. But that's just a much smaller issue that voting against the guys who would rather burn it all down than admit they were ever wrong.

I am sure there are some who wont vote conservative because they are woke, but I'm guessing there are far more who are woke because they wont vote conservative.