Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Ozy_Flame]

He's also creating a false equivalency with safe consumption sites and addiction services.

If Yoho understood the situation, addicts don't have a simple choice to just decide not to consume narcotics. Safe consumption sites are a scientifically-proven and effective method to helping manage additions and crisis, as part of a larger program for rehabilitation. Heck, it's not even about safe consumption sites - things like alcohol, marijuana, and other legal vices are readily available and people need support for recovery on those too.

The vast majority of people choosing not to vaccinate because of spurious reasons is completely a choice with significant consequences for everyone involved.

I'd rather my taxpayer dollars go towards improving the health of the community and lifting people back up onto their feet than knocking it down like purposely taking out the wrong piece in a Jenga puzzle.

[Bill Bumface]

So did I miss where Yoho owned up to posting completely false information in the form of the security guard takedown video? Or still typing up that retraction and apology message?

[Fuzz]

One of the problems of people who choose not to get vaccinated is because they justify it with false information. They haven't decided to make an honest decision based on facts, because they have been fed lies. That's why it is so easy to dismiss their protests. I have no doubt there are people out there who know all the facts and make a decision based on that, even if it goes against science and medical recommendations. But the majority of the unvaxinated have not done that. So until they operate in a world of facts and make decisions on that, it's pretty tough not to look down on them with disdain as they create hazards for the rest of us.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

So did I miss where Yoho owned up to posting completely false information in the form of the security guard takedown video? Or still typing up that retraction and apology message?

Hahaaha, that's not how this works.

[Cycling76er]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Wow we are three years in and there are still people that think firing people from their jobs for a personal medical decision and not allowing them to travel on a plane, train, bus, not see there loved ones in care facility, or attend funerals was a “minor inconvenience”?

You know what happens when livestock gets hit with a disease that could wipe out the herd?

They get culled.


This isn't about your "freedom" to make a personal medical decision. Nobody asked you to cut your balls off or get breast implants against your will.

This is about getting vaccinated to mitigate or prevent the spread of a virus. Your choice to not get vaccinated isn't consequence-free. That you are too ####ing stupid to understand this is on you and not the rest of us.

[Looch City]

Yes but the vaccine was RUSHED. The uncle of a friend of a coworkers past acquaintances ex-wife's husband's brother's uncle DIED three days AFTER he got the VACCINE! There's your proof!

Also forgot to say: people who DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH know this!1

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Cycling76er

get breast implants against your will.

.

hmmmmmmm

[TheIronMaiden]

nm.

[Envitro]

The only thing I'll add to this amazing discussion is how freely you guys espouse "science" when talking about people needing to get vaccinated to protect the rest of the population.

It is very well known now, and it was about a year ago that getting the double-shot of COVID-19 vaccine was never about protecting the "others". Rather it was about limiting extreme outcomes and avoiding overrunning our medical system.

Personal choice in medical procedures is very important, and forcing or coercing people to take a very experimental treatment, where the benefits were either overstated or simply made up is problematic at best.

The most recent admissions by executives from Pfizer don't give me much hope as someone that took the vaccine, under the assumption that it would protect my family and I, that any future endeavours like this would get me to take that risk again (obviously weighed against the risk of whatever next virus/pandemic we're up against).

This is, and always will be, a personal risk exercise. Most people suck at determining risk in their daily lives, let alone during a pandemic.

It's really easy to scream at "anti-vaxxers" or whatever term du-jour you decide to use against people that you disagree with. You may call me one too, except you can't since I did get the vaccine.

Am I getting my 5th or 6th booster, well, I don't think so. The more that comes out in the mainstream media reporting the more it makes me not want to take it.

I think the issue is that everyone is still really saddled in on their high-horse, and they look at anyone with a dissenting opinion as a stupid red-neck that believes every conspiracy theory out there. Now sure, there are plenty of people going on about WEF / New World Order BS and all that when talking about vaccines, but the majority of Albertans/Canadians that had, and still have, real actual hesitations about taking a vaccine that hasn't really been proven to do much to prevent the infection and spread of a deadly virus that killed millions of people.

Yet, somehow we're all just expected to hold the narrative from early 2020 about herd immunity and the saviour that is the mRNA vaccine (not saying that the vaccine didn't save lives, which it did, just to be clear).

Why can't we accept new information and maybe ponder that we were either lied to or severely misled, either on purpose or by the mere notion that we didn't have all the info at the time?

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Envitro

The only thing I'll add to this amazing discussion is how freely you guys espouse "science" when talking about people needing to get vaccinated to protect the rest of the population.

It is very well known now, and it was about a year ago that getting the double-shot of COVID-19 vaccine was never about protecting the "others". Rather it was about limiting extreme outcomes and avoiding overrunning our medical system.

Personal choice in medical procedures is very important, and forcing or coercing people to take a very experimental treatment, where the benefits were either overstated or simply made up is problematic at best.

Lol dude come on. You could have just started with that at the top of your spiel.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Looch City

Lol dude come on. You could have just started with that at the top of your spiel.

He forgot to call us Sheeple.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Envitro

The only thing I'll add to this amazing discussion is how freely you guys espouse "science" when talking about people needing to get vaccinated to protect the rest of the population.

It is very well known now, and it was about a year ago that getting the double-shot of COVID-19 vaccine was never about protecting the "others". Rather it was about limiting extreme outcomes and avoiding overrunning our medical system.

Personal choice in medical procedures is very important, and forcing or coercing people to take a very experimental treatment, where the benefits were either overstated or simply made up is problematic at best.

The most recent admissions by executives from Pfizer don't give me much hope as someone that took the vaccine, under the assumption that it would protect my family and I, that any future endeavours like this would get me to take that risk again (obviously weighed against the risk of whatever next virus/pandemic we're up against).

This is, and always will be, a personal risk exercise. Most people suck at determining risk in their daily lives, let alone during a pandemic.

It's really easy to scream at "anti-vaxxers" or whatever term du-jour you decide to use against people that you disagree with. You may call me one too, except you can't since I did get the vaccine.

Am I getting my 5th or 6th booster, well, I don't think so. The more that comes out in the mainstream media reporting the more it makes me not want to take it.

I think the issue is that everyone is still really saddled in on their high-horse, and they look at anyone with a dissenting opinion as a stupid red-neck that believes every conspiracy theory out there. Now sure, there are plenty of people going on about WEF / New World Order BS and all that when talking about vaccines, but the majority of Albertans/Canadians that had, and still have, real actual hesitations about taking a vaccine that hasn't really been proven to do much to prevent the infection and spread of a deadly virus that killed millions of people.

Yet, somehow we're all just expected to hold the narrative from early 2020 about herd immunity and the saviour that is the mRNA vaccine (not saying that the vaccine didn't save lives, which it did, just to be clear).

Why can't we accept new information and maybe ponder that we were either lied to or severely misled, either on purpose or by the mere notion that we didn't have all the info at the time?

See, here is the problem. You aren't operating on a basis of facts, so your decisions are flawed. Most of what I bolded is just you saying stuff that isn't true, or re-writing past facts based on present knowledge.

In the delta wave vaccines were highly protective, and were the only tool we had beyond restrictions to ease the load on our healthcare system. If someone, at that time, chose not to get vaccinated, and flouted restrictions they are the problem. It was a purely selfish decision with the information we had that caused damage to our healthcare system, our businesses, and the vulnerable. I'm not going to sit back and let these same selfish people pretend they were right because the virus mutated later and the ability for the vaccine to provide high levels of protection dropped.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Envitro

Personal choice in medical procedures is very important, and forcing or coercing people to take a very experimental treatment, where the benefits were either overstated or simply made up is problematic at best.

There has always been exceptions for infectious diseases. Since 1913 the province can legally detain anyone who refuses Tuberculosis treatment.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Envitro

The only thing I'll add to this amazing discussion is how freely you guys espouse "science" when talking about people needing to get vaccinated to protect the rest of the population.

It is very well known now, and it was about a year ago that getting the double-shot of COVID-19 vaccine was never about protecting the "others". Rather it was about limiting extreme outcomes and avoiding overrunning our medical system.

Personal choice in medical procedures is very important, and forcing or coercing people to take a very experimental treatment, where the benefits were either overstated or simply made up is problematic at best.

The most recent admissions by executives from Pfizer don't give me much hope as someone that took the vaccine, under the assumption that it would protect my family and I, that any future endeavours like this would get me to take that risk again (obviously weighed against the risk of whatever next virus/pandemic we're up against).

This is, and always will be, a personal risk exercise. Most people suck at determining risk in their daily lives, let alone during a pandemic.

It's really easy to scream at "anti-vaxxers" or whatever term du-jour you decide to use against people that you disagree with. You may call me one too, except you can't since I did get the vaccine.

Am I getting my 5th or 6th booster, well, I don't think so. The more that comes out in the mainstream media reporting the more it makes me not want to take it.

I think the issue is that everyone is still really saddled in on their high-horse, and they look at anyone with a dissenting opinion as a stupid red-neck that believes every conspiracy theory out there. Now sure, there are plenty of people going on about WEF / New World Order BS and all that when talking about vaccines, but the majority of Albertans/Canadians that had, and still have, real actual hesitations about taking a vaccine that hasn't really been proven to do much to prevent the infection and spread of a deadly virus that killed millions of people.

Yet, somehow we're all just expected to hold the narrative from early 2020 about herd immunity and the saviour that is the mRNA vaccine (not saying that the vaccine didn't save lives, which it did, just to be clear).

Why can't we accept new information and maybe ponder that we were either lied to or severely misled, either on purpose or by the mere notion that we didn't have all the info at the time?

Can you identify specific things you had been mislead about? And can identify the basis of information that makes you not want to get boosted.

I think the most common concern is the herd immunity vs reduce severe disease. Al the way through Delta up until Omicron herd immunity was working. R values were below 1 and infection rates controlled. The R0 of Omicron changed that (Dec 2021) and I would say policy caught up relatively quickly with vaccine based restrictions disappearing throughout 2022. Also the messaging of further boosters has been about reducing personal risk and not risk to the herd.

I’m interested where you would disagree because what I see is messaging around vaccine effectiveness and reasons to take it being driven by a changing virus which changes vaccine effectiveness which is what it appears you are asking for.

[Wormius]

What exactly on mainstream media is making you not want to get additional boosters as they become available?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Envitro

I'm about as progressive as you can get on pretty much all issues

Still waiting for you to weigh in on even one issue that illustrates this lol.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Envitro

The only thing I'll add to this amazing discussion is how freely you guys espouse "science" when talking about people needing to get vaccinated to protect the rest of the population.

It is very well known now, and it was about a year ago that getting the double-shot of COVID-19 vaccine was never about protecting the "others". Rather it was about limiting extreme outcomes and avoiding overrunning our medical system.

Personal choice in medical procedures is very important, and forcing or coercing people to take a very experimental treatment, where the benefits were either overstated or simply made up is problematic at best.

The most recent admissions by executives from Pfizer don't give me much hope as someone that took the vaccine, under the assumption that it would protect my family and I, that any future endeavours like this would get me to take that risk again (obviously weighed against the risk of whatever next virus/pandemic we're up against).

This is, and always will be, a personal risk exercise. Most people suck at determining risk in their daily lives, let alone during a pandemic.

It's really easy to scream at "anti-vaxxers" or whatever term du-jour you decide to use against people that you disagree with. You may call me one too, except you can't since I did get the vaccine.

Am I getting my 5th or 6th booster, well, I don't think so. The more that comes out in the mainstream media reporting the more it makes me not want to take it.

I think the issue is that everyone is still really saddled in on their high-horse, and they look at anyone with a dissenting opinion as a stupid red-neck that believes every conspiracy theory out there. Now sure, there are plenty of people going on about WEF / New World Order BS and all that when talking about vaccines, but the majority of Albertans/Canadians that had, and still have, real actual hesitations about taking a vaccine that hasn't really been proven to do much to prevent the infection and spread of a deadly virus that killed millions of people.

Yet, somehow we're all just expected to hold the narrative from early 2020 about herd immunity and the saviour that is the mRNA vaccine (not saying that the vaccine didn't save lives, which it did, just to be clear).

Why can't we accept new information and maybe ponder that we were either lied to or severely misled, either on purpose or by the mere notion that we didn't have all the info at the time?

[Inglewood Jack]

you guys are willing to go through this again? should we ring up just a guy to chime in as well?

[Harry Lime]

Just to catch everyone up in their righteous anger on both sides :

Dominant Covid strain in Alberta is currently B. 1.1. 529 (Omicron).

None of what any of you are saying matters anymore. Boosters provide protection against severe consequence, but the strain is significantly weaker, as well as more contagious, and the booster does not radically alter transmission over unvaccinated.

Concerned parties are immune compromised and the elderly. (So, most of CP)

What I had hoped would happen coming out of covid is that is YOU are sick, you stay home or wear a mask. That didn't happen, so everyone is an idiot.

[Knut]

It is easy to say these things within the lens of Omicron variant. This virus is a different beast than the one dominating when Vaccines rolled out.

The Delta variant was nasty and it was hospitalizing at a really high rate. So the restrictions put in the place at that time made a lot of sense. Also the Vaccine Mandates. Our system could have collapsed without them or we would have been dealing with another full lockdown. Anti-vaxxers at that time were being selfish and were actively causing harm to others to a high degree. If you remember the vaccine was also reducing transmission of the Delta variant.

When Omicron became the dominant strain the equation changed. No longer did the vaccine prevent transmission. However, the virus itself was much less severe.

If you want to have a discussion about how the vaccine mandates were in place too long that is completely valid.

There was definite validity to vaccine mandates and vaccine passports when Delta ran rampant.