Guns. Lots of Guns.

[undercoverbrother]

Guns and Shooting are fun as ####.

[Locke]

7-11 is a dangerous place.

I almost got scalded with coffee one time.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Certainly not. I think your views and mine are aligned on this subject.

I just forgot that the other poster becomes deliberately obtuse when it comes to gun discussion.

Yeah, for all the effort “extreme leftists” put in against guns in these discussions (though in my experience the most passionate are almost always further right than me, and I'm no extremist), it’s extra pointless with guys like Envitro who aren’t even capable of having a balanced discussion on the subject.

I think CP has a lot of really thoughtful gun owners (like btimbit) and non-gun owners who add a lot, but when it’s “guns are evil” vs “ma rights!” from some guy who “works in the industry” it’s kind of pointless.

My own views have softened over the years.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Envitro

I've spent a lot of time in a lot of "red states", both rural and urban settings, over the last 25 years.

Not once have I observed what you might call gun culture. Nobody talks about it, nobody flaunts it, and I think that the perception that this is what people are all about is false, in my opinion. In fact, most Americans that I've met and interacted with don't own a gun.

And I work in the industry, so my level of exposure to firearms is probably 10,000 fold over a regular American civilian.

Sure, I've seen like a total of 5 guys open carry in a few places like Texas or Montana in my 25 years of travelling in the U.S., but that's about it.

If you want your arguments to be taken seriously, you should at least pretend to post real points. To have "spent a lot of time in a lot of "red states"" and not seen gun culture is so unbelievable, I can't accept you typed that honestly.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Guns and Shooting are fun as ####.

LOL. And that's my whole rationale. I'm by no means the worlds best shot or even close. But it's just a totally fun hobby.

A lot of the anti-gun people I think are more anti-gun to appeal to their political alignment not because it's their true belief.

Quite a few of my friends from my younger days are quite left leaning, as are a lot of my relatives. I have taken a few to the range and every one would agree they had a really good time.

I don't think it necessarily changed their political views, but they still enjoyed it. However one did get an RPAL a couple years later.

I think the best analogy is you could be total anti-prostitution, but that doesn't mean a girl-for-hire still can't get you off.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by pylon

-quote shortened-

The discussion in 10 years is going to be the thousands of 3D printed ghost guns. At least with a registry, even in the completely rare case of a registered weapon is used in the commission of a crime, you can at least figure out some sort of trail as to where the gun came from. Which is better than nothing.

-quote shortened-.

I appreciated your entire perspective, but this part jumped out at me so I Googled it. It looks like this discussion is already happening ;

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ings-1.6562076

The fact people are printing guns does not surprise me, but I had never given much thought to the big picture of this fact. Certainly adds a wrinkle into gun control when bad guys can just print weapons.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yeah, for all the effort “extreme leftists” put in against guns in these discussions (though in my experience the most passionate are almost always further right than me, and I'm no extremist), it’s extra pointless with guys like Envitro who aren’t even capable of having a balanced discussion on the subject.

I think CP has a lot of really thoughtful gun owners (like btimbit) and non-gun owners who add a lot, but when it’s “guns are evil” vs “ma rights!” from some guy who “works in the industry” it’s kind of pointless.

My own views have softened over the years.

Well said. Extremes are silly and take away from the discussion.

Something I struggle to get some people to understand is that my view is there's a middle ground. Broadly speaking, I'm very, very pro gun control. Just anti gun bans

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

That's interesting. I've lived in the USA and traveled to almost all states and I have found the opposite. It's amazing you haven't seen it, not even ONCE in 25 years.

Guys with all sorts of pro-gun slogans on their shirts.

Guys with printouts in flag format of the 2A on their homes.

Guys with trucks covered in pro-gun stickers and anti-government rhetoric.

Guys who literally never shut up about their guns.

Guys literally open carrying to go to 7-11.

Originally Posted by Envitro

So now we're expanding the definition of what gun culture is to stickers, t-shirts, trucks, and not liking the government.

Cue Monster energy drink consumers as well.

Those things CroFlames pointed out are the artifacts of a thriving culture. What was pointed out was the iconography of the culture and the proud depiction of being a member of that counterculture. Gun culture, also identified as Second Amendment culture, is real and it is very strong in the red states.

To suggest you have spent any time in the red states and not seen guns or references to guns everywhere is disingenuous. I've lived in the south for over two decades and guns are everywhere. You suggest you've only seen five guys open carry in a quarter century, I see that when I walk into a Walmart almost anywhere in Arizona, and we're not as bad as the bible belt states. You can drive any road and be passed by a vehicle (normally a truck) with some type of iconography to guns, the 2nd amendment, or some wackadoddle freedom group (Molon Labe, III Percenters, Oathkeepers, etc.) who only exist for the love of guns. It's the one thing that makes me believe this country will not hold together.

[_Q_]

I lived and worked in Suburban New Orleans for a year. The gun culture is nauseating. Like coworkers would sit around and talk about guns for the entire lunch hour. What accessories they got, which grip works best, how to pull the trigger the most effectively, etc. The excitement these guys got from talking about guns was weird. It almost reminded me of 16 year old hockey bros talking about boobs in the locker room.

I literally had nothing in common with those dudes and was so glad to move to the Washington DC area.

Driving through and going on short trips to Texas and Montana is a whole lot different from living in a red state.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

I appreciated your entire perspective, but this part jumped out at me so I Googled it. It looks like this discussion is already happening ;

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ings-1.6562076

The fact people are printing guns does not surprise me, but I had never given much thought to the big picture of this fact. Certainly adds a wrinkle into gun control when bad guys can just print weapons.

Right now it's just the tip of the iceberg, but outright banning handguns is just going to create a massive cottage industry in Canada of untraceable weapons. And it will snowball. It's not the organized Criminals that worry me as much, as they will just get firearms illegally from the US. It's the fact that basically ANYONE with any sort of inkling will be able to get one with zero background checks very easily without having to deal with dark, seedy individuals. The disgruntled employee, jaded spouse, kid with a bone to pick with bullies..... it will be instantly accessible.

Without this ban, or 'freeze' as they want to call it, 99% of people would go through the regular channels, get an RPAL, and buy a brand name, safe, tested weapon. But how many people on the fringe of the argument are going to say "It's pretty damn easy to just get a 3D printed gun off the books, and with no tracing, I'll just do that." As there will be way more resources dedicated to producing them.

They are gonna push it underground, and make the underground market way bigger than it would normally have been and far more accessible. I would bet a lot of money, in 10 years, there is going to be a massive debate as we discuss the failure of this freeze. I believe the problem is going to get worse from this legislation, not better.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I lived and worked in Suburban New Orleans for a year. The gun culture is nauseating. Like coworkers would sit around and talk about guns for the entire lunch hour. What accessories they got, which grip works best, how to pull the trigger the most effectively, etc. The excitement these guys got from talking about guns was weird. It almost reminded me of 16 year old hockey bros talking about boobs in the locker room.

I literally had nothing in common with those dudes and was so glad to move to the Washington DC area.

Driving through and going on short trips to Texas and Montana is a whole lot different from living in a red state.

In their defense, hard for me not to act like a 16 year old hockey bro around my wife's boobs.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by TKB

The easiest way to tackle gun violence is to tackle all illegal guns pouring in from across the border. Maybe instead of wasting tax payers money on taking guns away from law abiding licensed firearms owners they should use those resources on what is truly the problem. News flash, licensed firearm owners aren’t the ones going around shooting each other in our cities, maybe try and tackle the gang violence and illegal guns first.

And how do you do that? A thorough search every vehicle crossing the border?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I lived and worked in Suburban New Orleans for a year. The gun culture is nauseating. Like coworkers would sit around and talk about guns for the entire lunch hour. What accessories they got, which grip works best, how to pull the trigger the most effectively, etc. The excitement these guys got from talking about guns was weird. It almost reminded me of 16 year old hockey bros talking about boobs in the locker room.

I literally had nothing in common with those dudes and was so glad to move to the Washington DC area.

Driving through and going on short trips to Texas and Montana is a whole lot different from living in a red state.

You haven’t lived until you have had to entertain a customer from Texas that spent hours talking about their gun collection. it’s not an exaggeration to say they love their guns.

[Envitro]

I'm all for a balanced discussion, it just seems that not many of you fine folks prefer to talk that way either. I'm about as progressive as you can get on pretty much all issues, but happens to know more than most about the firearms industry. And yeah, I'll stand up for my sport any time of day, and will speak with actual facts and statistics against people who don't know that much, yet choose to "feel" their way through complex issues and topics.

Yes, admittedly I've probably spent more time in the U.S. than 90% of Canadians, but sure, I've never lived there for more than a few months at a time, so I've never had the lunch-time chats like you described.

I'm a consultant by trade in my day job, guns don't come up ever in a professional setting, in Canada nor in the U.S.. I never bring it up, nor does anyone else.

Yeah, people like guns in the U.S., because it's a very popular hobby and sport shooting is widely popular. People talking about their equipment is no different than my hockey teammates talking about the retro re-issue Synergy stick that Easton just put out, but hate that they didn't get the grip right. Or a snap-shot technique suggestion to improve puck release speed or accuracy.

Same difference.

Now, if they're talking like "man, I can't wait for someone to break into my house so I can show him what's up" then yeah, that's a problem and a toxic culture.

But if you got uncomfortable because you had nothing in common with them and had no interest in their sport or hobby, then I don't know what to tell you.

[CroFlames]

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Envitro

I'm all for a balanced discussion, it just seems that not many of you fine folks prefer to talk that way either. I'm about as progressive as you can get on pretty much all issues, but happens to know more than most about the firearms industry. And yeah, I'll stand up for my sport any time of day, and will speak with actual facts and statistics against people who don't know that much, yet choose to "feel" their way through complex issues and topics.

Yes, admittedly I've probably spent more time in the U.S. than 90% of Canadians, but sure, I've never lived there for more than a few months at a time, so I've never had the lunch-time chats like you described.

I'm a consultant by trade in my day job, guns don't come up ever in a professional setting, in Canada nor in the U.S.. I never bring it up, nor does anyone else.

Yeah, people like guns in the U.S., because it's a very popular hobby and sport shooting is widely popular. People talking about their equipment is no different than my hockey teammates talking about the retro re-issue Synergy stick that Easton just put out, but hate that they didn't get the grip right. Or a snap-shot technique suggestion to improve puck release speed or accuracy.

Same difference.

Now, if they're talking like "man, I can't wait for someone to break into my house so I can show him what's up" then yeah, that's a problem and a toxic culture.

But if you got uncomfortable because you had nothing in common with them and had no interest in their sport or hobby, then I don't know what to tell you.

My wife had to go to the Texas office and they insisted on taking her to the shooting range, and were blown away she had never touched a gun before. She said they talked about guns all week. And these were a group of professional middle aged office ladies. I just don't buy your experience having been through many US States myself. I don't know how you miss the gun culture, even without looking for it, but maybe you are just desensitized to it all.

Hell, you don't even need to leave Canada to be inundated with US gun culture.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Envitro

Now, if they're talking like "man, I can't wait for someone to break into my house so I can show him what's up" then yeah, that's a problem and a toxic culture.

That tells me you are either stretching the truth about your American experiences or that your clients kept you at an arms length because of being a consultant. I lived in Kansas for two years and that is where I fell into shooting and got myself an RPAL on my return. First weekend where I was settled I went to my bosses acreage and shot about 15 guns. Loved shooting a revolver.

The less savoury part of gun culture isn't that they all want to go blasting their neighbours it is that they enable the people like that because they are so afraid of the government taking their guns. There are upper middle class Americans who legitimately think they could fight the US military if they came for their guns and substantive gun control legislation would leave them vulnerable to government oversight and control.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Envitro

I'm all for a balanced discussion, it just seems that not many of you fine folks prefer to talk that way either. I'm about as progressive as you can get on pretty much all issues, but happens to know more than most about the firearms industry. And yeah, I'll stand up for my sport any time of day, and will speak with actual facts and statistics against people who don't know that much, yet choose to "feel" their way through complex issues and topics.

You have to understand that this is why these conversations are kind of pointless, right?

Having been on the board a while, I can tell you your views (or at least the ones shared here) don’t come close to being “as progressive as you can get” and you (more than once) have been asked why you were using some poorly sourced and wrong/misleading “facts” and statistics.

Adding the weird denial of gun culture in the US, which pretty much anyone who has spent time down there can tell you otherwise (even in blue states, in my experience), and it’s basically impossible to have a balanced, honest conversation. It might be time to actually evaluate your biases, a lot of it coming from it being your job and your sport, and actually listen to more moderate gun owners while paying attention to the world around you.

The reason people write off a lot of gun owners is because the loudest seem completely detached from anything beyond their own wants.

[pylon]

I would like to point out this conversation is a lot more civil than I expected. I really thought my post was a potential fuse to a powder keg.

It's nice to see.

And no, you cannot deny the rabid gun culture in the US. My wife has a family cabin in Whitefish, and I've seen it first hand. It's almost a sickness. We were just in Tahiti, and befriended a couple from Idaho that were in our resort.... Nice people and all, but boy, the 'Murica' was strong.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

In their defense, hard for me not to act like a 16 year old hockey bro around my wife's boobs.

Same. CroFlames' wife has great boobs.