Flames only nhl team NOT to graduate a single draft pick since 2018

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

He won’t even sign until next year. And those guys aren’t for sure even here next year.

I think chances are pretty good that he joins the team in April

[Vinny01]

There are a few things that have contributed to this team feeling really old:

1. In terms of age differences Gaudreau/Huberdeau is a wash but 7 years difference between Kadri and Tkachuk.
2. Flames signed Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar to long term deals that run until each player is 37-38. Our 3 highest paid players
3. Trading 1st round pick in 18 and second round pick in 17, 18, 19 not enough prospects pushing. That draft class is at the beginning of the 23-29 age group Sutter talks about as the key to improving.
4. Not giving Philips, Pelletier, or Zary a look. I suspect that could change but for now Dube is the youngest forward on the roster from the 2016 draft

In the next 2-3 years hopefully guys like Pelletier, Zary, Coronato are playing in the middle 6 and contributing otherwise there is a chance this team ages out and turns into the 15-21 LA Kings.

I am very much okay with that if we get to be the 2012-2014 Kings first

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

There are a few things that have contributed to this team feeling really old:

1. In terms of age differences Gaudreau/Huberdeau is a wash but 7 years difference between Kadri and Tkachuk.
2. Flames signed Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar to long term deals that run until each player is 37-38. Our 3 highest paid players
3. Trading 1st round pick in 18 and second round pick in 17, 18, 19 not enough prospects pushing. That draft class is at the beginning of the 23-29 age group Sutter talks about as the key to improving.
4. Not giving Philips, Pelletier, or Zary a look. I suspect that could change but for now Dube is the youngest forward on the roster from the 2016 draft

In the next 2-3 years hopefully guys like Pelletier, Zary, Coronato are playing in the middle 6 and contributing otherwise there is a chance this team ages out and turns into the 15-21 LA Kings.

I am very much okay with that if we get to be the 2012-2014 Kings first

Ever the pessimist, I find your point #2 particularly scary. Allowing for continuing adjustment to a new team affecting present performance, we’re going to see the best the three players are going to offer the team this season and maybe next. After that, those contracts have the potential to put this team in cap Hell. And I‘m underwhelmed by the play of the two from Florida.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Ever the pessimist, I find your point #2 particularly scary. Allowing for continuing adjustment to a new team affecting present performance, we’re going to see the best the three players are going to offer the team this season and maybe next. After that, those contracts have the potential to put this team in cap Hell. And I‘m underwhelmed by the play of the two from Florida.

Two years is pretty ridiculous. Everyone declines at a different age, but 5 years is a more reasonable guess at this point.

[Bingo]

^ and none of that has changed from when they were signed.

The team is sputtering, players are adjusting, but it's been 9 games.

9 games won't make an elite player average, and it certainly doesn't change the projection of contracts signed a few months ago.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Two years is pretty ridiculous. Everyone declines at a different age, but 5 years is a more reasonable guess at this point.

As I said, I’m a pessimist. I can hope you’re right, but what I’ve seen so far suggests the contracts will start out-performing the players pretty early in their terms (maybe not so much for Kadri, but for the other 2, the contracts don’t even start until next season).

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

As I said, I’m a pessimist. I can hope you’re right, but what I’ve seen so far suggests the contracts will start out-performing the players pretty early in their terms (maybe not so much for Kadri, but for the other 2, the contracts don’t even start until next season).

Saw an interesting analysis on high primary assist forwards, and how they age better than any other skater.

That bodes well for Huberdeau as well.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

No, I think it's a relevant timeline — it lines up pretty well with Sutter's return, plus a time in which the Flames have been relatively free-wheeling about dealing picks.

I'm looking at a snapshot of the present that compares the 32 teams under individual management groups, only one or two coaches, etc.

2022 - 3 players
2021 - 10 (SEA and CBJ have players in 2022 so it's 11 teams)

7 of these players have exceeded 9gp in a season. 2 of them have exceeded 22gp.

The past 2 years aren't particularly useful.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Ever the pessimist, I find your point #2 particularly scary. Allowing for continuing adjustment to a new team affecting present performance, we’re going to see the best the three players are going to offer the team this season and maybe next. After that, those contracts have the potential to put this team in cap Hell. And I‘m underwhelmed by the play of the two from Florida.

huberdeau isn't going to decline at 30/31, weegar isn't going to decline at 29/30

you should be getting near peak value for 3-4 years, and ok value for another year or two after that , and by the time you get to that point the salary cap will have increased . there will be a couple brutal years at the tail end but these guys won't be useless in 2 seasons .. that's just excessive worrying

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by edslunch

That’s the issue here. The Flames have been in win now mode since 2004, even with mediocre non-playoff teams. There is no slack for allowing young players to develop. I get the ‘earn it’ mantra but I think if you have a player with obvious talent and potential sometimes you need to take a chance on them and help them grow. A few pre-season games is not sufficient.

Well this isn't true...Flames have had TONS of draft picks play prominent roles with the team since then

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Oh yeah, Boston is a great team, but like a true contender they barely make any picks. Furthermore, the picks they have made are typically pretty underwhelming.

A great team, but certainly not a great drafting team of late. But ... they have Jakub Lauko playing regular minutes in the NHL this year.

Boston has been in contention for the better part of 15 years. Their approach is the correct one - draft picks are for losers (admittedly, they did F themselves by taking Debrusk, Senyshyn and Zboril over Connor, Barzal and Chabot) but they still managed to go to another final after that.

Take a look at the Penguins, as well.

Here are the players drafted by Pittsburgh post-Sid that actually helped the Penguins win games during a Stanley Cup-winning playoff run.

Staal - 1st, 2006
Rust - 3rd, 2010
Kuhnhackl - 4th, 2010
Maatta - 1st, 2012
Matt Murray - 3rd, 2012
Sundqvist - 3rd, 2012
Guentzel - 3rd, 2013

They have three rings in four trips to the Finals. They’ve won 20 playoff rounds in the cap era.

Boston has one ring and three trips to the Finals. They’ve won 16 rounds in the cap era.

Conversely, the Oilers have drafted in the 1st round every year of the cap era but 2006, when they traded a 1st round pick for Dwayne Roloson. I wonder what happened that year, someone should look it up…

Drafting their own 1st and then expecting that child to “ride shotgun” with McDavid is a huge part of the reason Edmonton went almost 5 full calendar years between playoff victories (note, that’s single game victories, not series victories) WITH 29 and 97 on the roster the entire time scoring 200 points a year.

Draft picks are for losers. They are the best way to get top-10 players when they’re 18 years old. But if you’re a team like the Penguins, Bruins, Capitals, Avalanche, Lightning, even the Oilers… you don’t need teenagers.

You need adults who can play with your superstars, who the coach can trust in key moments of playoff games.

Kids that can do that are rare.

There’s no excuse for the Flames to not use their 1st round pick in each of at least the next three years to acquire viable NHL talent. Find some gem in the 4th round again. Find another Mangiapane.

Don’t draft some kid 24th overall. He’s not going to be ready in time.

[topfiverecords]

Not bothered. Just ice the best 20 guys you can however they get here.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think the 2020 draft was excellent. Didn't love the 2022 draft at all.

Really when you look past the 2017 draft for games played the majority should come from 2018 and more from 2019.

Don't think the 20+ drafts are fully baked.

This comes down to a lack of picks in my opinion than a failure to promote or develop.

No pick in 2018 until the 4th round.

Only a total of 14 first round games played in the 2019 first round past Pelletier.

I’m a big fan of Zary and Poirier and think both will play in the NHL so I agree.

As another said, Hamonic and Valimaki situations set us back for sure.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Flames don't have anyone in the NHL since 2018, so they are a terrible drafting and development team. Zary looked great in camp and deserved a shot, but due to his limited playing time last year, his development is best served in playing heavy minutes in the AHL for now. See how contrary this is?


I don't know, maybe it is on the downswing. I just think that that the Flames have had more than their 'fair share' of drafting and developing (and signing FAs who weren't drafted) and turning them into good hockey players. Not an area of concern for me.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah I think the vet quota has destroyed the preseason.

You now get PTOs filling spots with prospects, and the actual pros playing the next night at home.

It really shouldn't be a thing. It's pre-season, let the teams do whatever the hell they want to figure out what they have heading into the season. So stupid.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by jayswin

It really shouldn't be a thing. It's pre-season, let the teams do whatever the hell they want to figure out what they have heading into the season. So stupid.

The rule exists because teams were icing pre-season lineups with no NHLers at all. In and of itself, this should be fine. However, the NHL is in the habit of charging full price for pre-season games, and STHs have to pay full boat for all of them. And it was the complaints from STHs that brought about the rule.

This rule isn't a good solution (it's terrible ), the proper solution is to not charge regular season prices for pre-season games.

[Textcritic]

^
Are there any NHL teams who sell preseason games at reduced prices? I am interested to know who is doing so if it happens.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The rule exists because teams were icing pre-season lineups with no NHLers at all. In and of itself, this should be fine. However, the NHL is in the habit of charging full price for pre-season games, and STHs have to pay full boat for all of them. And it was the complaints from STHs that brought about the rule.

This rule isn't a good solution (it's terrible ), the proper solution is to not charge regular season prices for pre-season games.

Yeah it's a classic bad solution because it doesn't achieve the intended outcome, and actually makes other things worse.
The real issue, as you say, is the stubbornness to punish STHs by charging full price for pre-season games.

[Jay Random]

When you come down to it, it isn't even about charging STH's full price for pre-season games. What they do is spread the price of 41 tickets over 44 or 45 games to make it look like the STH's are getting a bigger discount.

I'd say the actual problem here is false advertising. Making the product worse never helps solve that.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

When you come down to it, it isn't even about charging STH's full price for pre-season games. What they do is spread the price of 41 tickets over 44 or 45 games to make it look like the STH's are getting a bigger discount.

I'd say the actual problem here is false advertising. Making the product worse never helps solve that.

Right, but by going that route, they made pre-season games full price, optically.

They made their bed, now they have to deal with the result.