Don Imus dropped from MSNBC on Tv, maybe to lose job entirely

[troutman]

Originally Posted by fotze

and after all aren't we all a part of the "human race". (had to throw in a cheesy one-liner for arsenal and habernac)

ebony and ivory
live together in perfect harmony
side by side on my piano keyboard
oh lord, why can't we?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

all i did was take your example, switch some of the races and insert the appropriate racial slur to reflect the changes and suddenly it wouldn't be ok.

Well not really. You sort of changed the situation and ignored the part where in one instance, the word was used in jest between people who know each other, and in the other, the same word was used as part of a threat, so it's different.

As for all those dancers you mentioned, I guess it depends on who you are and who you are talking too.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Since when is that ok?

your whole arguement is based on something that isn't true

uhhhh betcha that'd be an ok statement. they might get insulted about you running down their dancing skills but over being called a cracker? nah.

[underGRADFlame]

Does it matter to any one that was was said was ment to be funny and was not said with hate. Imus has a comedy program, he was trying to be funny. I've heard the audio of what was said, it was not said with hate. He's hardly a racist and to single him out for making a joke (albeit a bad one) just show how out of wack society is right now. I just think everyone needs to calm down and take a breath. The fact that no one is up in arms over what is said on any other comedy programs everyday just shows the hipocracy of this. Humour and hate are two things that are so different that many people take to be the same thing.
I was talking to a black co-worker today about this whole siduation, she is discusted by how the black community is using Imus as a scape goat and thinks that Sharpton and Jackson are completely out of line.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

supoose i'm a black guy. if i say to a white guy "damn, you really are a cracker. that was some really bad dancing"
still, a-ok

Well, I have seen a couple of real life circumstances were this was not a-ok to those involved, so I'm not so sure that you can make this claim.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Well not really. You sort of changed the situation and ignored the part where in one instance, the word was used in jest between people who know each other, and in the other, the same word was used as part of a threat, so it's different.

As for all those dancers you mentioned, I guess it depends on who you are and who you are talking too.

well your example was joking with someone vs threatening someone... racial slurs or not... threatening someone is not ok.
i'll admit my example was not perfect, but was closer to isolating the issue of racial slurs and racism than a joke vs a threat.

[peter12]

I just think it's really funny how some people have divided this debate into black and white communities. Those definitions of people, culture and skin colour are about 70 years old.

The white community is not a single, absolute white blob that has self-perpetuated white supremacy over the past 200 years in America. Neither is the "black community" one hegemonous mass either.

People come from different countries, speak different languages, have their own culture. Labelling this as a racial problem is false, it's a cultural issue now. That's why all Americans must avoid using this word and engender respect for others as well as themselves.

When a black rapper uses the "N" word or other racial slur, he/she is not okay simply because he's using the wordi n the context of his own "racial group". What about a recent immigrant from say... Ghana... or Brazil, who also happens to be black. They might be a little offended too.

[GeoffSK]

I just can't see how this issue will ever go away if rappers uses the words in there music. These rappers do know they sell the music to white kids as well. If 12 year old kids keep on hearing the words then how can anyone expect the words to go away.

Kind of makes me think of Office space when Michael Bolton is in his car driving to work listening to rap and when the 2 black guys are near he lowers the volume and stops singing the lyrics.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by fotze

I agree, I've always said call me a cracker, it has absolutely no negative connotation to me. Honky too.

I think calling me a racist though would have the same effect as calling a black fellow the N word.

the term cracker, while older than american slavery, was recoined during the period of american slavery to refer to the slave masters who would 'crack' the whip. if you're fine being called a cracker, you're fine being called slavemaster and thus racist. yet cracker is seen as a socially acceptable term for white people.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

the term cracker, while older than american slavery, was recoined during the period of american slavery to refer to the slave masters who would 'crack' the whip. if you're fine being called a cracker, you're fine being called slavemaster and thus racist. yet cracker is seen as a socially acceptable term for white people.

Wow, I just learned something today, and here I thought it was because they were white like saltine crackers.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

uhhhh betcha that'd be an ok statement. they might get insulted about you running down their dancing skills but over being called a cracker? nah.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
If I went out and called random "white" people cracker, I'd bet atleast 90% take offense and some would even get violent.

[worth]

didn't someone on that puff daddy band show call another person a cracker and it turned out to be a pretty big deal. maybe that was just for show for tv.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by peter12

I just think it's really funny how some people have divided this debate into black and white communities. Those definitions of people, culture and skin colour are about 70 years old.

The white community is not a single, absolute white blob that has self-perpetuated white supremacy over the past 200 years in America. Neither is the "black community" one hegemonous mass either.

People come from different countries, speak different languages, have their own culture. Labelling this as a racial problem is false, it's a cultural issue now. That's why all Americans must avoid using this word and engender respect for others as well as themselves.

When a black rapper uses the "N" word or other racial slur, he/she is not okay simply because he's using the wordi n the context of his own "racial group". What about a recent immigrant from say... Ghana... or Brazil, who also happens to be black. They might be a little offended too.

While I would agree with you that the "black community" is evolving into many different facets, I will point out that it takes no time at all to find quotes from Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton where they use the term "black community," hence categorizing themselves.

If the term is outdated, it might be wise to inform them.

In fairness, I think they use the term to describe their own base of support and might, as one example, refer to recent immigrants from Niger as something else.

An article on the composition of the "black community," written by a white guy (for fun, I checked).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

Winsor Pilates wrote - "It also seems a lot like you're generalizing "blacks" into this one community who all are responsible for the use of these words in "their" community. I'm sure there are plenty of black people who don't use these words and they shouldn't be held responsible for it based on some song lyrics they never wrote."

Go back and check the quotes from black leaders I provided earlier . . . . . I'm clearly not generalizing in that I pointed out contrary opinion.

In that vein, an interesting column in the LA Times today by a black civil rights lawyer, a woman, Constance Rice, who is pretty much on the same page as myself, talking of "glass mansions."

She says Imus shouldn't be fired.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,7610556.story

EDIT TO ADD: Here's an article in today's New York Times on Imus's sidekick, the guy who used the word "jigaboos" . . . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/bu...hp&oref=slogin

Cowperson

[peter12]

So what do you about a guy like Russell Peters? This is a comedian who makes his living off of race jokes.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by peter12

So what do you about a guy like Russell Peters? This is a comedian who makes his living off of race jokes.

That was one of the issues that came out of the Michael Richards debacle as well . . . black leaders, after a few days of pounding on Richards, the white guy, started to turn on black comedians.

This Imus thing seems to be following the same pattern as the Richards scandal . . . . . we're seeing a few days of beating up on the white guy before some of the more ethereal black leaders start standing up and say, "you know, people who live in glass mansions . . . . ."

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,7610556.story

Well, I think I'll go get a haircut now.

Cowperson

[Bobblehead]

CBS has followed suit and fired Imus. link

CBS announced Thursday its decision to cease broadcasting the Imus in the Morning radio program, effective immediately, on a permanent basis.

Imus initially was suspended for two weeks for calling the Rutgers women's basketball team "nappy-headed hos" on the air last week, but outrage continued to grow and advertisers bolted from his programs.

[Kool Keef]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

CBS has followed suit and fired Imus. link

Wow, I'm surprised a has-been like Jesse "Heimy-Town" Jackson and a never-was like Al "Tawana Brawley" Sharpton have this kind of pull. If saying something stupid is the sole criterion for being fired, then these two buffoons are unemployable.

Too bad it's just Imus and not all three.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Kool Keef

Wow, I'm surprised a has-been like Jesse "Heimy-Town" Jackson and a never-was like Al "Tawana Brawley" Sharpton have this kind of pull. If saying something stupid is the sole criterion for being fired, then these two buffoons are unemployable.

I think they are self-employed. But it's a good point.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by peter12

So what do you about a guy like Russell Peters? This is a comedian who makes his living off of race jokes.

Interesting point.
IMO, his stuff is pretty playfull and not insulting like Imus. However, it's admittedly a pretty fine line.

edit: I also think talking about specific people makes a big difference. Generic jokes aren't taken personally as much and pass by without making too much offense. Insulting specific people like Imus did, is tougher to get away with.

[Displaced Flames fan]

I just don't get Imus at all. Have never thought he was the least bit funny.

He's getting what he deserves.