Bell vs. Star Choice Debate Again- Split

[Rhettzky]

^^Can't this discussion be carried out in one of the many existing service provider threads? I, for one, am interested in the topic at hand.

[OilKiller]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

^^Can't this discussion be carried out in one of the many existing service provider threads? I, for one, am interested in the topic at hand.

Yes, you are right. I was simply trying to respond to people responding to me. That's it for this BEV HD topic from me before I get a blue square...

[Vulcan]

I don't watch Rush much as it's a little too Hip Hop for me but Oasis and Equator have some great nature shows and documentaries which show off HD at it's best.

WGN is pretty much useless. Except for it's HD Cubs games, it's almost all SD reruns.

[Bobblehead]

Isn't there a big difference in the way EVU and SC simsub?

I have StarChoice, and no HD so I have been fairly happy. I've read too many issues with EVU billing for me to want to switch. If SC HD content is now catching up with EVu then perhaps it is time to start looking at that nice 52" Sharp Aquos at Costco.

[Vulcan]

Yeah, simsubbing is a constant thorn with Bell. It seems everytime it's happening I get the picture freezing, sound troubles, etc. The Global and City stations out of Toronto have no reason to exist on satellite. There programming is almost all simsubbing and I never watch it. CTV is almost as bad.

The Sharp Aquos at Costco is a good choice. I hear it's a great TV, I'd like the 42", but has banding problems. At Costco you can keep returning it with no questions until you get a good one.

[OilKiller]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Isn't there a big difference in the way EVU and SC simsub?

Yep...HUGE difference. Both SC and Shaw do NOT simsub HD channels at all currently.

For those that don't know, a simsub is when a Canadian network takes over the U.S. network with their feed, so they can show local commercials. You know...the whole Super Bowl experience with Global news promos instead of great Bud Light commercials, etc.

Not only do they replace the content, but in many cases, of course especially with HD content, the HD is nowhere near as good as what the U.S. network is showing, with video and audio content screwed up. It's been so bad, that there have been times already that the CRTC has told CTV and Global they cannot simsub until they get their act together.

Us SC or Shaw subs don't have to worry about that. As well, Bell simsubs EVERY SINGLE THING THEY CAN. With SD channels, you will always get Toronto or Vancouver commercials, no matter where you live, when you are watching a U.S. net that gets simsubbed. With Shaw and SC, they perform simsubs correctly. With SD channels, if a LOCAL Canadian SD channel is showing the same thing at the same time as a U.S. net, then a simsub happens. This does not happen at all for HD channels. Even then, with the SD channels, viewers can avoid the simsubs by watching an Eastern feed or a Western feed, depending on where they live, which will never have a simsub as it is out of market. This is how simsubs were meant to happen.

TSN on Bell for example gets simsubbed over U.S. nets all the time for golf, and various other sports, even though TSN has no rights whatsoever to actually have simsubs performed for them. TSN is NEVER simsubbed on Shaw/SC. It is on BEV because low and behold, BGM is the same company that owns TSN/CTV and you guessed it, Bell.

Just because you see a whole bunch of Bell commercials, it doesn't mean they are the best company. Besides, someone should shoot those stupid beavers.

[kootenayguy9]

One thing to keep in mind is Bell is changing their HD receivers in July of this year.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/content/view/1783/206/

I had no problems with the Bell installer showing up and if Starchoice offered NHL Centre Ice I probably would switch since my two year contract is up.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by kootenayguy9

One thing to keep in mind is Bell is changing their HD receivers in July of this year.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/content/view/1783/206/

I had no problems with the Bell installer showing up and if Starchoice offered NHL Centre Ice I probably would switch since my two year contract is up.

Yes, it would be better at this stage to rent as the new HD receivers will have different technology and when Bell switches their system over, my HD receiver will only be good for a door stop. Bell may have an exchange program, but there is nothing definite.

[fanforever1986]

Originally Posted by OilKiller

Yep...HUGE difference. Both SC and Shaw do NOT simsub HD channels at all currently.

For those that don't know, a simsub is when a Canadian network takes over the U.S. network with their feed, so they can show local commercials. You know...the whole Super Bowl experience with Global news promos instead of great Bud Light commercials, etc.

Not only do they replace the content, but in many cases, of course especially with HD content, the HD is nowhere near as good as what the U.S. network is showing, with video and audio content screwed up. It's been so bad, that there have been times already that the CRTC has told CTV and Global they cannot simsub until they get their act together.

Us SC or Shaw subs don't have to worry about that. As well, Bell simsubs EVERY SINGLE THING THEY CAN. With SD channels, you will always get Toronto or Vancouver commercials, no matter where you live, when you are watching a U.S. net that gets simsubbed. With Shaw and SC, they perform simsubs correctly. With SD channels, if a LOCAL Canadian SD channel is showing the same thing at the same time as a U.S. net, then a simsub happens. This does not happen at all for HD channels. Even then, with the SD channels, viewers can avoid the simsubs by watching an Eastern feed or a Western feed, depending on where they live, which will never have a simsub as it is out of market. This is how simsubs were meant to happen.

TSN on Bell for example gets simsubbed over U.S. nets all the time for golf, and various other sports, even though TSN has no rights whatsoever to actually have simsubs performed for them. TSN is NEVER simsubbed on Shaw/SC. It is on BEV because low and behold, BGM is the same company that owns TSN/CTV and you guessed it, Bell.

Just because you see a whole bunch of Bell commercials, it doesn't mean they are the best company. Besides, someone should shoot those stupid beavers.

The only reason they don't subsim HD is because Shaw doesn't carry CTV HD, Global HD, or CityTV HD(the 3 networks that usually carry US based programming in Canada). In vancouver Shaw was forced to provide CTV HD because it's available OTA (over the air), which is a CRTC regulation.

Shaw does in fact sub sim their programming, just not in HD...yet

I'm not positive, but I believe it's actually required by the CRTC that service providers use the Canadian feed (TV show and commercials) when it's available.

[OilKiller]

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

The only reason they don't subsim HD is because Shaw doesn't carry CTV HD, Global HD, or CityTV HD

Wrong again. Both Shaw and SC carry CTV HD in the major markets. They do not carry Global HD or CityTV HD because there is no need for them. The U.S. nets have the same programming. Waste of bandwidth for those services. So is CTV HD actually, but BGM made Shaw take CTV HD in order to carry TSN HD. That's the ONLY reason you see it in their lineup.

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

Shaw does in fact sub sim their programming, just not in HD...yet

You really don't read, do you?

I never said Shaw/SC doesn't simsub. In fact I said they do in SD.

Read again:

With SD channels, if a LOCAL Canadian SD channel is showing the same thing at the same time as a U.S. net, then a simsub happens. This does not happen at all for HD channels. Even then, with the SD channels, viewers can avoid the simsubs by watching an Eastern feed or a Western feed, depending on where they live, which will never have a simsub as it is out of market. This is how simsubs were meant to happen.

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

I'm not positive, but I believe it's actually required by the CRTC that service providers use the Canadian feed (TV show and commercials) when it's available.

Again, you are not even bothering to read what I post so why should I bother to have this discussion with you.

From my earlier post...read again:

Us SC or Shaw subs don't have to worry about that. As well, Bell simsubs EVERY SINGLE THING THEY CAN. With SD channels, you will always get Toronto or Vancouver commercials, no matter where you live, when you are watching a U.S. net that gets simsubbed. With Shaw and SC, they perform simsubs correctly. With SD channels, if a LOCAL Canadian SD channel is showing the same thing at the same time as a U.S. net, then a simsub happens.

There is no requirement to simsub HD channels because there are no local HD towers in most areas where customers are located. If push comes to shove and the CRTC enforces simsubs with HD networks, they will happen where the actual towers are, IN that market only and only when the local Canadian HD channel is showing the same thing as the local/same time zone HD channel is. Living in Calgary or Edmonton for that matter, SC/Shaw subs most likely will never see simsubs on HD channels because there won't ever be Global/CTV HD towers in those markets. These companies are not willing to spend the money. And even then, since simsubs are performed properly by Shaw/SC, in these markets, we could still watch the Eastern HD feeds and never see any simsubs.

Please do your homework and actually read what people are saying if you would like to have a discussion about a topic.

[Bobblehead]

I doubt many new markets will get OTA HD. Most people who want HD will have digital cable or satellite. Networks won't take away anything already being offered (*), but they aren't going to make major transmission investments when the early adopters have already adopted using digital signals.


* At some point analogue signals will be shut down. The CRTC has not mandated this change, but in the US the FCC has a deadline (and has already sold the spectrum, so it is a fixed deadline) so I'm sure Canada will drop analogue and switch to a purely digital transmission as analogue equipment starts to disappear. People with older TVs will need to get a digital to analogue set-top-box to continue to use those sets.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by kootenayguy9

One thing to keep in mind is Bell is changing their HD receivers in July of this year.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/content/view/1783/206/

I had no problems with the Bell installer showing up and if Starchoice offered NHL Centre Ice I probably would switch since my two year contract is up.

The installer told my wife this. What a kick in the groin. $600 down the drain. Plus I see that the 9200 receiver does not support 1080p tv's. Or is that even a big deal? But I can't see Bell discounting the 9200 receiver that much. They are almost impossible to find. Demand is definetly higher than supply. In Alberta at least.

[Flames_Gimp]

I think we can all agree that Canadian TV just plain sucks, period.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I think we can all agree that Canadian TV just plain sucks, period.

Yup...and they wonder why so many people try to "steal" american satellite!

[OilKiller]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I think we can all agree that Canadian TV just plain sucks, period.

With HD though, it's certainly getting better. Many people in the States can't even get HD nNets (NBC, ABC, etc) from their satellite company (DISH/DTV). They have to get the OTA feed. If they do get the nets from their satellite provider, they certainly don't get time shifting like we do in Canada. Most of what my wife and I watch is primetime TV, so I love the fact we get East and West HD U.S. nets.

If we could get some of these crappy leeching Canadian channels turfed and some full scale American channels added, then the system wouldn't be all that bad overall. If the Conservatives have their way and get into power again, the CRTC may be a thing of the past (at least for controlling content) and we'll get even more competition and better channels/choice/programming overall for the consumer. It shouldn't be about what the corporations want. It should be about what we want as the customer.

[Berger_4_]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I find that argument so funny...can't see the puck HA! My grandma can keep track of the puck on regular Shaw cable feeds so I don't understand what their problem is with that. Always makes me laugh...

its strange that americans cant do that, usually they have no problem discriminating between black and white...

One tip if you want to enjoy ExpressVu...DO NOT PHONE THEIR CUSTOMER SEVICE I think even OilKiller can agree with me on this one

preaching to the choir...spent over an hour and a half on the phone with 'em

[Bobblehead]

To be honest, it takes me forever to get through to StarChoice the last couple times I tried. But when i did get through the person was friendly and as helpful as they could be.

[fanforever1986]

Originally Posted by OilKiller

Wrong again. Both Shaw and SC carry CTV HD in the major markets. They do not carry Global HD or CityTV HD because there is no need for them. The U.S. nets have the same programming. Waste of bandwidth for those services. So is CTV HD actually, but BGM made Shaw take CTV HD in order to carry TSN HD. That's the ONLY reason you see it in their lineup.



You really don't read, do you?

I never said Shaw/SC doesn't simsub. In fact I said they do in SD.

Read again:






Again, you are not even bothering to read what I post so why should I bother to have this discussion with you.

From my earlier post...read again:



There is no requirement to simsub HD channels because there are no local HD towers in most areas where customers are located. If push comes to shove and the CRTC enforces simsubs with HD networks, they will happen where the actual towers are, IN that market only and only when the local Canadian HD channel is showing the same thing as the local/same time zone HD channel is. Living in Calgary or Edmonton for that matter, SC/Shaw subs most likely will never see simsubs on HD channels because there won't ever be Global/CTV HD towers in those markets. These companies are not willing to spend the money. And even then, since simsubs are performed properly by Shaw/SC, in these markets, we could still watch the Eastern HD feeds and never see any simsubs.

Please do your homework and actually read what people are saying if you would like to have a discussion about a topic.

I didn't know anyone could be so passionate about this. It's yours and Shaw's position on these issues that is the cause for the negative image Shaw upholds in the business. No need for them? They're Canadian. Both of them provide original programming. Shaw's refusal to add them to their lineup has as much to do with the lack of bandwidth Shaw's network has room for as anything else.

And good on Bell for packaging TSN and CTV. They're pushing for the implimentation of HDTV in Canada. Shaw wishes the technology didn't exist, and they could put all their resources into digital phone. (A high up at Shaw recently said digital phone was a more viable market than HDTV, and that HD was not their main priority...that was the reason I switched)

I did misread your bit about correctly simsubing SD channels. I wouldn't know how they map out what areas get what commercials. That is really a non issue for myself, and I'm sure others.

How are you in a position to say that places such as Calgary will never see local HD stations?

[OilKiller]

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

I didn't know anyone could be so passionate about this. It's yours and Shaw's position on these issues that is the cause for the negative image Shaw upholds in the business. No need for them? They're Canadian. Both of them provide original programming. Shaw's refusal to add them to their lineup has as much to do with the lack of bandwidth Shaw's network has room for as anything else.

They do nothing more than simsub American content. CTV wanted to delay the broadcast of the Junos so it could show Desperate Housewives in it's regular timeslot. That's how Canadian they are. Only when the CRTC was flooded with complaints did CTV back away from that stance. These stations, Global/CTV/City only exist to make as much money as they can off of content we get anyway from U.S. nets. The only cancon they provide is what is absolutely required in order for them to keep their license. All of that money we are paying to watch these channels/services is being sent over the border to buy U.S. content we get anyway on U.S. nets. If they are so "Canadian", then why don't they invest that money into the creation of actual "Canadian" content created HERE in Canada with more jobs for Canadians? Why? Because it's all about the easiest most cost effective way they can take advantage of an outdated system so they can make as much money as possible. It has nothing to do with serving "Canadians" or protecting any Canadian "heritage". That's the mask they hide behind to keep filling their pockets.

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

And good on Bell for packaging TSN and CTV. They're pushing for the implimentation of HDTV in Canada. Shaw wishes the technology didn't exist, and they could put all their resources into digital phone. (A high up at Shaw recently said digital phone was a more viable market than HDTV, and that HD was not their main priority...that was the reason I switched)

Got any proof that Shaw (who is adding numerous HD services tomorrow) doesn't want HD to exist? Got any proof that Bell is is pushing for implementation of more HD in Canada or they are simply trying to make the most money they can on their OWN owned channels?

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

How are you in a position to say that places such as Calgary will never see local HD stations?

See my first statement above. The day Canwest Global or BGM puts out money for HD towers all over Canada is the day pigs fly out of my a**.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

The installer told my wife this. What a kick in the groin. $600 down the drain. Plus I see that the 9200 receiver does not support 1080p tv's. Or is that even a big deal? But I can't see Bell discounting the 9200 receiver that much. They are almost impossible to find. Demand is definetly higher than supply. In Alberta at least.

I think the reason they are hard to find is because Bell doesn't want any more disgruntled customers. Hopefully they'll do an exchange program if they haven't already been bought out by the Ferengi. Remember Rules of Acquisition #1. Once you have their money, never give it back. I just remembered another rule #60. Keep your lies consistant. Bell doesn't bother with this, they run their business more like Tony Soprano runs his garbage business. Laughing in your face. Sorry about his, I guess I have some built up anger.

As far as 1080p goes, nobody broadcasts above 1080i so the only way to get a 1080p feed is in gaming, DVD's or your computer. Your 1080p TV will upconvert the other HD signals to 1080p.