Russia invades Ukraine

[karl262]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Wagner group is now recruiting from Russian prisons. Prisoners will get their get out jail card free and their crimes forgiven after 6 months of duty as mercenaries. Insanity.

What's the worst job in the Russian army right now? Maybe loading/unloading ammo crates at supply depots...that's probably what they'll be doing.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by karl262

What's the worst job in the Russian army right now? Maybe loading/unloading ammo crates at supply depots...that's probably what they'll be doing.

Nah, they will be used for the traditional Russian method of mine clearance

'just walk out in front of the tank Pavel, it'll be fine'

[you&me]

Originally Posted by karl262

What's the worst job in the Russian army right now? Maybe loading/unloading ammo crates at supply depots...that's probably what they'll be doing.

Unless this is a reference to "smoking accidents", I'd take that job over being on the front lines... These guys are in for the definition of meat grinder.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Wagner group is now recruiting from Russian prisons. Prisoners will get their get out jail card free and their crimes forgiven after 6 months of duty as mercenaries. Insanity.

Hitler actually did something in similar in WWII:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafbataillon

He gave violent criminals guns and sent them into high danger areas or on missions where he wanted to send a message.

The division was ran by a convicted rapist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Dirlewanger

[opendoor]

Good to see the US making some diplomatic moves in the Armeina/Azerbaijan conflict to hopefully exploit Russian weakness:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1570464658707947521

Armenia has just found out that the Russian-led CSTO guarantees aren't worth the paper they're written on after triggering the mutual defense clause and getting crickets in response. Hopefully the US can end the conflict and (in the long term) Armenia can shift away from Russian influence.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

Hitler actually did something in similar in WWII:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafbataillon

He gave violent criminals guns and sent them into high danger areas or on missions where he wanted to send a message.

The division was ran by a convicted rapist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Dirlewanger

Going way back, the Ottomans used to do the same thing as they conquered areas. They would offer to free prisoners and erase criminal records if they converted to Islam and joined their military. Even some people in Western Europe defected to the Ottomans to escape justice. It was used by some as a once in a lifetime "get out of jail free" card. Don't like your neighbour, kill him and then hightail it to Istanbul. Some of the highest ranking people in the Ottoman army were English, Dutch, French, Poles, and Germans who were criminals in their home countries.

Not that this has anything to do with what the Wagner group is doing, just a historical story I find interesting.

[karl262]

Yeah but being on the front lines would give them the opportunity to surrender which they'd probably jump at.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

A. I doubt Wagner holds true to their word.
B. They'll get lit up by combat tested Ukrainian military.

Yeah, penal battalions are always ultimately cannon-fodder. The real danger unleashing murderers and rapists into Ukraine just increases the changes of civilian atrocities.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Going way back, the Ottomans used to do the same thing as they conquered areas. They would offer to free prisoners and erase criminal records if they converted to Islam and joined their military. Even some people in Western Europe defected to the Ottomans to escape justice. It was used by some as a once in a lifetime "get out of jail free" card. Don't like your neighbour, kill him and then hightail it to Istanbul. Some of the highest ranking people in the Ottoman army were English, Dutch, French, Poles, and Germans who were criminals in their home countries.

Not that this has anything to do with what the Wagner group is doing, just a historical story I find interesting.

Didn't the French Foreign Legion also serve a similar purpose? Aside from allowing foreigners to join (heard a lot of Wehrmacht joined after WWII) and win French Citizenship, it was a place for disgraced or people who made mistakes to go to to redeem themselves?

Or did I watch too much Pepe le Pew?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Didn't the French Foreign Legion also serve a similar purpose? Aside from allowing foreigners to join (heard a lot of Wehrmacht joined after WWII) and win French Citizenship, it was a place for disgraced or people who made mistakes to go to to redeem themselves?

Or did I watch too much Pepe le Pew?

At one time yes, there was a lot of former Wehrmacht in the Legion, plenty died at Dien Bien Phu. It has moved away from that past, it's apparently it is more professional and hard to get in.

A bit OT, but this book was written by a Canadian about his time in during the 90's, if this interests you.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by karl262

Yeah but being on the front lines would give them the opportunity to surrender which they'd probably jump at.

I don't see them surrendering. Once peace is reached Ukraine won't want them and they won't want to get sent back to Russia to deal with the consequences of surrendering.

Their option is to fight, don't get me wrong they will die, but surrendering isn't an option, IMO.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Didn't the French Foreign Legion also serve a similar purpose? Aside from allowing foreigners to join (heard a lot of Wehrmacht joined after WWII) and win French Citizenship, it was a place for disgraced or people who made mistakes to go to to redeem themselves?

Or did I watch too much Pepe le Pew?

Before modern nation states and conscription armies, and modern record keeping, joining some military force or another was a quite common way to shed a questionable past. Recruiters often didn't care much who you were and what you had done, and new recruits got some kind of new identification papers anyway. French Foreign Legion has a reputation for still doing that.

Recruiting prisoners is an ancient practice and not that rare. Dedicated penal units were pretty common during the 19th century, when primary weapons were slow loading firearms and cannons. In those days a cannon fodder squad actually served some tactical purpose.

Of course they're extremely poorly suited for modern warfare, where key qualities are training, motivation and ability to function independently, and army sizes are often primarily limited by your ability to train, arm, feed and shelter troops. Penal units are crappy, unreliable poorly motivated troops to waste resources on. Of course if your army mostly consists of crappy unmotivated soldiers, I guess it doesn't matter much.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by CASe333

Zelensky recently posted this to Russia:

"Do you still think we are one people? Do you still think you can scare us, break us, force us to make concessions? Don't you really get it? Don't you understand who we are? What we stand for? What we are all about?

Read my lips:
Without gas or without you? Without you.
Without light or without you? Without you.
Without water or without you? Without you.
Without food or without you? Without you.

Cold, hunger, darkness and thirst are not as frightening and deadly for us as your friendship and brotherhood. But history will put everything in its place. And we will be with gas, light, water and food... and WITHOUT you!"

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/st...htmode%3Dfalse

I fully understand and respect Ukrainian desire to end "brotherhood and friendship" with Russia. The intention to no longer have any economic and cultural ties with Russia also makes perfect sense. Now how about giving a "sign of eternal brotherhood and friendship" back to Russia?

https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/119636

Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet, for its part the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Ukrainian SSR considers that the transfer of Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR is completely advisable, considering the commonality of their economy, the territorial proximity, and the close economic and cultural ties, and is evidence of the unlimited trust of the great Russian people in the Ukrainian people.

With sincere gratitude and approval the Ukrainian people welcome the decision concerning the transfer of Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR as a new manifestation of the concern of the CPSU and Soviet Government concerning the further strengthening of the unbreakable friendship and fraternal ties between the Russian and Ukrainian peoples

[Mr.Coffee]

Sorry what’s the difference between what Russia has done since mid February and “declaring war”?

Has Putin has conducted the largest strategic blunder in history?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I think Ukraine takes back Crimea no matter what Putin does. From Ukraine's perspective that is Ukrainian territory that was occupied unlawfully in 2014, no?

No. It's a sign of unlimited trust Russians had in Ukranians, close cultural and economical ties, and eternal brotherhood and friendship between Ukrainians and Russians. This is literally what's written in the transfer decree linked above. If Ukraine wants to have nothing to do with Russia from now on, they should let Russia have Crimea back. It's literally a sign and a baggage of what they try to get rid of. If Ukraine wants to leave its old Russian family and join the new Western family, they should give old family gifts back.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Sorry what’s the difference between what Russia has done since mid February and “declaring war”?

Has Putin has conducted the largest strategic blunder in history?

No difference on the battlefield, but major difference inside Russia.

Yes, it's a phenomenal blunder and it looked like a lunacy from the start. There was no reason behind it, it was just a power trip that failed spectacularly.

[Coach]

People really seem to be talking past Pointman a lot. He's not threatening any sort of mobilization, or saying theyre already not at war, or that anyone else should fear the potential Russian conscripts.

Seems to be saying without saying that IF Putin does officially declare war and institute conscription, it will almost certainly result in the end of him via overthrow. That there will be no conscripts or mobilization even if thats what Putin orders.

I imagine they're being pretty careful about what exactly they're typing into the internet from inside Russia.

[afc wimbledon]

The trouble for Russia and Ukraine is going to be selling letting Russia have the Crimea to the Ukrainians while Russia is going to have to accept there will be no fresh water flowing from the Dniper into Crimea making it a worthless desert, a huge part of what spured this invasion was trying to ensure a water supply to the Crimea

[Cortez]

From Twitter this morning

“Ukrainian soldiers have broken through Russia's frontline along the Oskil River, exposing an important supply route and swathes of territory that the Kremlin has promised to defend “


https://twitter.com/telegraphworld/s...SK4lU03pH0cQkg


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...ontline-oskil/


News link is behind a paywall. Any other info you guys are seeing on this?

[burn_this_city]

First delivery of a modern MBT to Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1571531776178245635