Flames announce prospects camp and Young stars roster

[FBI]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

Didn't he force his way out or am i remembering that wrong? Andersson is fantastic and a rare AHL development need more of those shrewd picks!

We traded Sven for that Andersson pick.. So I don't think we can lump Sven into your list of prospect busts.. He also played a lot of NHL games..

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

Maybe my expectations/reality are skewed, personally top 8 with a 5 game loss to the grease does nothing for me, a wasted season in my books.



I do agree that the flames roster today appears to be a top 10 team in the NHL again this season, however, I still don't see the ability to eventually compete and win a 7 game series against the Avs/Lightning so again making the second round again and losing doesn't excite me.



As it stands I don't see this team as a Stanley Cup contender. I think they are a good team, a top 10 maybe even top 8 but its Stanley cup or bust for a franchise thats toiled in mediocrity basically since 1994...

So, here's the thing: we agree that virtually any other team is going to be hard pressed to get past Colorado or TB this season. What is the appropriate response? Should the remaining 30 teams start shedding players with anticipation if building for a better future five years down the road? And what happens then, to the dozens of teams who are still not a top-two NHL team? Do they again repeat the process until they get it right?

I think your approach is actually pretty futile, and more than likely would result in a nearly endless cycle of premature rebuilding, since no team will ever be good enough. Let's be clear here: it requires an incredible amount of luck for a team to win the Stanley Cup. The best that any team can do is to put themselves in the best possible position to win, and that is precisely what the Flames are doing. You're right: this team almost certainly will not win a championship, but if you are waiting for the perfect team, your wait and disappointment will never end.


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[Iggy_12]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, here's the thing: we agree that virtually any other team is going to be hard pressed to get past Colorado or TB this season. What is the appropriate response? Should the remaining 30 teams start shedding players with anticipation if building for a better future five years down the road? And what happens then, to the dozens of teams who are still not a top-two NHL team? Do they again repeat the process until they get it right?

I think your approach is actually pretty futile, and more than likely would result in a nearly endless cycle of premature rebuilding, since no team will ever be good enough. Let's be clear here: it requires an incredible amount of luck for a team to win the Stanley Cup. The best that any team can do is to put themselves in the best possible position to win, and that is precisely what the Flames are doing. You're right: this team almost certainly will not win a championship, but if you are waiting for the perfect team, your wait and disappointment will never end.


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Honestly this is a really good perspective, thank you for that. It takes a ton of luck and skill to become a perennial cup favorite which is exactly what Tbay and Colorado did, and for every perfect rebuild like this you have 8 that fail (edmontonx2, buffalo ect)

Is it fair to say I don't really know what i expect? Personally its been painful to always just be OK, never really a true contender and for me having never seen an attempted rebuild i guess the unknown (future success with great prospects and farm team) is disguised as attractive over the 20 years of just being a middle team?

Not sure if that makes sense, I dont expect this team to win a cup, and then that continues into the future cause its tough to win without superstar players on rookie contracts. I'd be content winning just one cup and then I would never have a complaint about this franchise for the rest of my life

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, here's the thing: we agree that virtually any other team is going to be hard pressed to get past Colorado or TB this season. What is the appropriate response? Should the remaining 30 teams start shedding players with anticipation if building for a better future five years down the road? And what happens then, to the dozens of teams who are still not a top-two NHL team? Do they again repeat the process until they get it right?

I think your approach is actually pretty futile, and more than likely would result in a nearly endless cycle of premature rebuilding, since no team will ever be good enough. Let's be clear here: it requires an incredible amount of luck for a team to win the Stanley Cup. The best that any team can do is to put themselves in the best possible position to win, and that is precisely what the Flames are doing. You're right: this team almost certainly will not win a championship, but if you are waiting for the perfect team, your wait and disappointment will never end.


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Right, and pre-POs last season Calgary was ranked 4th in the league by many. And more importantly, 2nd in the west, which meant if anything happened to the Avs (like with TB and Columbus or like the Avs the two years before last) Calgary could have been looking at a cup final. Sure the POs had a big disappointment, but they also beat a very tough Dallas team (look at their season record with Oettinger in net).

This year Calgary arguably improved, the Avs are slightly weaker, Edmonton is an injury away from being a bottom feeder team.

[Oil Stain]

Sorry to take this thread off-topic by talking abut the prospect tournament but here's the schedule:



And here is the Oilers roster:


The Oilers prospects are built like the main team. Mostly forwards.

Holloway, Bourgault, and Schaefer are 1st rounders. Seems like Bourgault is the best bet to be a top sixer. First year pros Petrov, Savoie, and Tullio are guys who put up strong amateur numbers last year and might have a chance a being players.

On the defence Broberg is the only real notable. Maximus Wanner has the best name though.

I'm interested to see goalie Ryan Fanti in action. He had very good numbers in the NCAA which could mean something or nothing.

[Enoch Root]

Fans have a tendency to expect the players to perform based on pedigree, but age matters a ton at these things. Holloway and Pelletier are both not only good prospects, but should be old enough to be fairly dominant.

Should be fun to watch them.

[Monahammer]

Where are all the rubes who commented about how our roster looks bad? The Oilers roster looks way worse, and it's still better than Vancouver's team. You'd think that roster would look better since this is a club who hasn't traded a 1st rounder in like... 10 years? Man they suck at drafting.

*7 years, it was Griffin Reinhart of course

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Where are all the rubes who commented about how our roster looks bad? The Oilers roster looks way worse, and it's still better than Vancouver's team. You'd think that roster would look better since this is a club who hasn't traded a 1st rounder in like... 10 years? Man they suck at drafting.

*7 years, it was Griffin Reinhart of course

Was gonna say - are people saying that because the roster isn't all blue chippers? Every team's prospect pool is mostly guys who are tweeners or will never make it. 5 future NHLers at any given time would be great.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

Honestly this is a really good perspective, thank you for that. It takes a ton of luck and skill to become a perennial cup favorite which is exactly what Tbay and Colorado did, and for every perfect rebuild like this you have 8 that fail (edmontonx2, buffalo ect)

Something else I would add here is that virtually no rebuild follows the original blueprint from start to finish. These are "living documents" that are subject to constant re-evaluation, adaptation, and change. Colorado and TB did not follow a set formula from the start to a championship.

Is it fair to say I don't really know what i expect? Personally its been painful to always just be OK, never really a true contender and for me having never seen an attempted rebuild i guess the unknown (future success with great prospects and farm team) is disguised as attractive over the 20 years of just being a middle team?

I get the disappointment, but I would respond with a few things: first, I think it is fair to say that the Flames ARE a "true contender" NOW. But moreover, the problem for all teams is that they will spend most of their time being no better than "just OK." That's just the facts of life in a cap league.

Second, I don't think it is fair to say that the Flames have never embarked on a "true rebuild." The current roster is absolutely the result of a rebuild. But all rebuilds look a little (or a lot) different from one another, and this is precisely because virtually every rebuild never goes exactly according to plan. This is also why most of them take so long.

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[Robbob]

Of course the oilers get the tired team in 2 of their 3 games.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Right, and pre-POs last season Calgary was ranked 4th in the league by many. And more importantly, 2nd in the west, which meant if anything happened to the Avs (like with TB and Columbus or like the Avs the two years before last) Calgary could have been looking at a cup final. Sure the POs had a big disappointment, but they also beat a very tough Dallas team (look at their season record with Oettinger in net).

This year Calgary arguably improved, the Avs are slightly weaker, Edmonton is an injury away from being a bottom feeder team.

Without Kadri you can make a case the Avs are quite a bit weaker. Unless Newhook and Byram step it up which they could.

Tampa also lost McDonagh. Are they not worse? 3 years in the finals and a team that is really starting to age they are worse. Point not healthy last year probably still has them as the favs IMO but I don't see why the Flames can't be close to these teams if things go right just once for this franchise.

[Canada 02]

"A lacerated kidney nearly cost him his season. Now, Jack Beck is healthy and hungry to perform at Flames rookie camp"

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/all-...ry/c-335500950

[Robbob]

I want Beck to succeed so badly, so the Lucic-Neal trade tree can grow.

[dino7c]

Despite not having their top prospect and winning the most games of all these teams over the last 3 seasons the Flames probably have the best roster.

What's the problem?

[Flaming Horse]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

Honestly this is a really good perspective, thank you for that. It takes a ton of luck and skill to become a perennial cup favorite which is exactly what Tbay and Colorado did, and for every perfect rebuild like this you have 8 that fail (edmontonx2, buffalo ect)

Is it fair to say I don't really know what i expect? Personally its been painful to always just be OK, never really a true contender and for me having never seen an attempted rebuild i guess the unknown (future success with great prospects and farm team) is disguised as attractive over the 20 years of just being a middle team?

Not sure if that makes sense, I dont expect this team to win a cup, and then that continues into the future cause its tough to win without superstar players on rookie contracts. I'd be content winning just one cup and then I would never have a complaint about this franchise for the rest of my life

what it takes to win is to have the right people at the top of the org and that flows threw the rest of the team. You need to have people that know what it takes to win. Drafting and developing are so important. I'm surprised more teams don't spend more money on this side the org. Having good scouts is right their with drafting and developing. The money gms waste could be used to upgrade these areas. It also helps to have a plan and to execute that plan. Look at the difference Sutter has made. Even Tre is learning from him on what it takes to win. It took the team 7 yrs under Tre to start developing structure and culture and it is starting now thanks to Sutter.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Without Kadri you can make a case the Avs are quite a bit weaker. Unless Newhook and Byram step it up which they could.

Tampa also lost McDonagh. Are they not worse? 3 years in the finals and a team that is really starting to age they are worse. Point not healthy last year probably still has them as the favs IMO but I don't see why the Flames can't be close to these teams if things go right just once for this franchise.

I didn't want to go overboard on the Avs. They were pretty strong pre-Kadri, though they've now also lost other players as well.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

... It also helps to have a plan and to execute that plan. Look at the difference Sutter has made. Even Tre is learning from him on what it takes to win. It took the team 7 yrs under Tre to start developing structure and culture and it is starting now thanks to Sutter.

I don't think this is true. Treliving's history strongly suggests that the roster we have now is something he has been building toward since the beginning. It is just really, really hard to build a team. But, no doubt, Sutter's presence and his mindset are very important, which is why Treliving had been seeking to get him back even before Sutter returned.

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[Enoch Root]

Treliving has talked about character being a primary concern from the day he arrived.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Treliving has talked about character being a primary concern from the day he arrived.

Neal taught him that it's huge though.

[Sandman]

Dylan Holloway had 35 pts in 23 games in the NCAA in his D+1 year. It’s a real shame, but he’s going to be a very good player.