[Signing] Flames sign Kadri (7 years, $7m AAV)

[Textcritic]

League-wide, is there a better third-line centre than Mikael Backlund?

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[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

League-wide, is there a better third-line centre than Mikael Backlund?

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Schenn behind O'Reilly and Thomas?

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Sutter says his lines aren't numbered......

Why is that? I think it is because if your "Second" line is hitting on all cylinders during a game and your "First" line is sucking wind... then, for that game at least, is your first line your second (or lower) and your second line your first (or above the "first" line). What if you mix the lines up during a game, does the numbering stay with the center? Suppose the center is the issue and you move him off? See how numbering can get confusing... numbering or ranking is a fan thing I think (but I like it and use it - I'm a fan).



Off Topic: which makes me wonder, doesn't that go for goalies too in Sutter's world... because, if a team has a goalies number (let's say Edmonton has Markstrom's for example)... and discovers a flaw in the goalie, or sees the goalie cheating to one side or one method (let's say between the glove and the pad - just above the pad) - wouldn't it be a good thing to start the other goalie, if not to just mix things up.... because they aren't numbered and all.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

I'm actually not being obtuse.

Saying that a player is #2C on our team but would be #1C on another team means absolutely nothing. You can only play one center at a time.

It is the literal definition of being completely irrelevant and the only purpose is to make a fanbase feel better about their team than they should be.

It's hockey's version of mansplaining.

This is a moronic post. The logic is so simple to understand, I’m not sure how you aren’t getting it. Also, I don’t think mansplaining means what you think it means… and tbh I’m not entirely sure what you think it means.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

League-wide, is there a better third-line centre than Mikael Backlund?

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How much C does Stamkos play these days?

Point
Stamkos
Cirelli

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

League-wide, is there a better third-line centre than Mikael Backlund?

I know I'm going to get slammed for this (and rightfully so)...




Ryan Nugent-Hopkins behind McDavid and Draisaitl.


RNH is at least on par with Backlund, he is a first overall pick after all, and if Draisaitl is playing center - he's the third line center on that team.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

I know I'm going to get slammed for this (and rightfully so)...




Ryan Nugent-Hopkins behind McDavid and Draisaitl.


RNH is at least on par with Backlund, he is a first overall pick after all, and if Draisaitl is playing center - he's the third line center on that team.

Draisaitl sometimes starts at centre, by mid 1st period he is a winger. RNH is in no way in par with Backlund. Nobody but an Oilers fan would possibly think that. Your Oiler colours are showing here.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

RNH is at least on par with Backlund, he is a first overall pick after all, and if Draisaitl is playing center - he's the third line center on that team.

He really isn't. Nugent-Hopkins gets a tonne of powerplay time, and every year around half of his production comes there. Backlund regularly outplays The Tenderness at even strength.


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[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Nobody but an Oilers fan would possibly think that. Your Oiler colours are showing here.

Lol... I'll tell my wife... I hate Edmonton, I think I truly hate Edmonton more than the Oilers. I'm a fifth generation Calgarian and therefore an Albertan and I know (from family stories) how Edmonton screwed over the true capital of Alberta in 1905 which was promised to Calgary when Edmonton years before opted for the University. Always a Calgary fan first and and since McDavid (and the string of number one overall picks)... I'd always cheer against them.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

I know I'm going to get slammed for this (and rightfully so)...

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins behind McDavid and Draisaitl.


, and if Draisaitl is playing center - he's the third line center on that team.

I'm not slamming you, just simple questions. If Draisitl is your third line center, who is your second?

RNH is at least on par with Backlund, he is a first overall pick after all

He is first overall pick has no relevance on here, it's how he play on ice.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

He really isn't. Nugent-Hopkins gets a tonne of powerplay time, and every year around half of his production comes there. Backlund regularly outplays The Tenderness at even strength.

I get your point... I'm trying to take out my bias here.



Interesting point... RNH was the first overall pick in 2011, and out of the top 5 picks that year, Edmonton has touched (or wrecked) 3 of them which I wouldn't want on my team.... I'd take either of the other two and we will find out how one of those picks goes this year.



RNH has certainly slide down his draft class rankings... but I wonder if an unbiased person would take him over Backlund still today, RNH is younger, and we all must admit here, Backlund has progressed slower and is more of a late bloomer - which is not a bad thing, maybe he peaks later and has a slower downward descent much like Gio had, and maybe with that, he's better then RNH today. I still think it's a close call and a "pick me" type bet - so then I must fall on RNH is younger and as a gambling man, I'd take that.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Schenn behind O'Reilly and Thomas?

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

How much C does Stamkos play these days?

Point
Stamkos
Cirelli

If you excuse age/future prospective value, is there a substantial difference between Backlund, Schenn and Cirelli?

Backlund and Cirelli's stats lines are very comparable across the board. Schenn's been finishing about 10 pts ahead of the other two but picking them all up on the powerplay, which probably goes directly to pptoi, Also has the worst giveaway/takeaway ratio of the 3 by far, so you are probably giving up a fair amount of 2-way responsibility going to Schenn.

Backlund is outshooting the other 2 by a lot with a low success rate (I think thats more Sutter hockey than Backlund specifically). But is does mean as a depth C he is doing a good job of driving Ozone time.

We've probably identified the 3 best 3Cs in the league, and Backlund fits right in.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by #-3

If you excuse age/future prospective value, is there a substantial difference between Backlund, Schenn and Cirelli?

Obviously it’s nice that he’s certainly in contention and he probably fits the bill of the “third line shutdown center” more than Schenn does. But, like Kadri, Schenn went on a surge last year and put up 58 points in 62 games, 77 points prorated, for a career year as a 30 year old. Unlike Kadri though, Schenn’s put up somewhat similar numbers before in his career including a 70 point season. Kadri’s career year prior to this past season was 61 points.

Take Backlund if you’re up by 1 trying to protect a lead late in the third, but I don’t think it’s a question of everything else equal who you would want to start the game with (especially as Lindholm can take the defensive responsibilities) given Schenn’s play last season.

.

[OptimalTates]

Also Lundell in Florida probably makes a case if he progresses at all. Though I’m not convinced he won’t be the second line center by the end of the season pushing Bennett down.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Also Lundell in Florida probably makes a case if he progresses at all. Though I’m not convinced he won’t be the second line center by the end of the season pushing Bennett down.

Like I said Schenn, Cirelli seem to be right in the same wheel house as Backlund (maybe Schenn with more offence and less twoway, Cirelli with more upside). But if Bennet is in Fld's top 3 centers, I'm comfortable saying we have 3 Cs better than that.

[BrownDrake]

How would our top 3 centres rank 1-32 against their current peers?
1 Lindholm (top 20 ??)
2 Kadri (top 10?)
3 Backlund (top 5??)

I would think we are very well balanced now down the middle.

I think we will be very tough to play against now, all 3 have top tier 2 way games, great back checkers that will help our transition game and increase our puck possession time.

I’m excited.

[jg13]

Originally Posted by BrownDrake

How would our top 3 centres rank 1-32 against their current peers?
1 Lindholm (top 20 ??)
2 Kadri (top 10?)
3 Backlund (top 5??)

I would think we are very well balanced now down the middle.

I think we will be very tough to play against now, all 3 have top tier 2 way games, great back checkers that will help our transition game and increase our puck possession time.

I’m excited.

Lindholm and Kadri are ranked 13th and 14th in the entire NHL on this list

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-current...rs/c-335232368

I think either Lindholm/Kadri would be in the top 3 in terms of 2nd line centre amongst the rest of the league.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by BrownDrake

How would our top 3 centres rank 1-32 against their current peers?
1 Lindholm (top 20 ??)
2 Kadri (top 10?)
3 Backlund (top 5??)

I would think we are very well balanced now down the middle.

I think we will be very tough to play against now, all 3 have top tier 2 way games, great back checkers that will help our transition game and increase our puck possession time.

I’m excited.

Not sure what Lindholm needs to do for some people

42 goals, PPG, and second in selke voting...+61

[powderjunkie]

Lots of guys had career years as scoring overall hasn't been that high in 25 years.

Kadri was almost certainly the biggest jump of any established player. 0.66ppg over 617 games going back to his career high year in 2012-13 (0.92 in that shortened year; his next highest year was 0.74)...jumped to 1.23 ppg this year.

Schenn's career highs were 0.85 and 0.82 - 0.69 avg over same time frame as Kadri above - he jumped to 0.94 this year, which is only marginally more than his previous career high when corrected for scoring that season.


This is a total tangent, but the 2016 off season of terrible UFA deals (Lucic, Eriksson, Okposo, Ladd) came after the lowest scoring year (2.71) since the cancelled season...I wondered if a bump in scoring might have contributed to those deals, but nope. 4 other years were 2.72-2.74; last year was 3.14.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

I get your point... I'm trying to take out my bias here.



Interesting point... RNH was the first overall pick in 2011, and out of the top 5 picks that year, Edmonton has touched (or wrecked) 3 of them which I wouldn't want on my team.... I'd take either of the other two and we will find out how one of those picks goes this year.



RNH has certainly slide down his draft class rankings... but I wonder if an unbiased person would take him over Backlund still today, RNH is younger, and we all must admit here, Backlund has progressed slower and is more of a late bloomer - which is not a bad thing, maybe he peaks later and has a slower downward descent much like Gio had, and maybe with that, he's better then RNH today. I still think it's a close call and a "pick me" type bet - so then I must fall on RNH is younger and as a gambling man, I'd take that.

The only thing RNH has over Backlund is PP points. And the reason he gets PP time is because the Oilers have only had 3 functioning forwards until this past year.

I posted the numbers recently, so I am not going to do it again, but Backlund has been more productive than RNH, 5 on 5. And sometimes quite a bit more productive.

Backlund is also - indisputably - better defensively.

The only people taking RNH over Backlund are 1) Oiler fans, and 2) people going by pedigree but don't watch them both play.