Weegar wouldn't be at Makar or Hedman level...very few dmen are.
It depends on what you're looking for in a good Dman, if you looking on preventing the other team from entering your zone or entering clean (a graph was posted on this)... then there are few better than Weegar. Devon Toews is remarkable at this... Sure Makar is great at scoring, but every goal Toews prevented is worth exactly the same as every goal Makar scored. I'll try and find that graph... interesting point, Brett Kulak was high on that graph, although not as elite as Weegar or Toews.
I watched Toews break up McDavid entering the zone in that series over and over, it was remarkable at the disruption he caused... just imagine Weegar doing that against McDavid in the BOA (with one game this season sadly)... he is on the same level. I'm excited to see it.
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Instead of focusing on the strengths of this team, maybe it is a worthwhile endeavour to get our heads out of the clouds and look at this team's weaknesses, and see where they may have issues.
Weaknesses:
None. No, really, name it. Think long and hard. Not enough depth on the roster? I will give you one... travel schedule? That's about it. At the risk of sounding like a homer, let's focus on the strengths to illustrate my point.
Strengths:
Goaltending: I would say it is probably in the top 5. Want to argue that because of the Oilers' series? That's up to you. I feel they are still a top 5 team in net.
Defence: I would say top 5 team there too. Where in the top 5? I don't know, but that's some seriously good quality from 1-6. The only possible gripe here is there is no franchise-level game-breaker, but this is a very good 1-6 group that were solidly in the top 5 last year by every metric that I saw, and now have improved.
Centers: This is harder to rate. I mean, McDavid, Draisaitl and RNH is really good, but Draisaitl plays with McDavid a lot, and defensively as a group they are not particularly strong. Crosby-Malkin-Carter is definitely still elite (though Carter is waning). Lindholm, Kadri and Backlund as a group should be among the top 5 in production by centers I am guessing, but also be among the top 5 for defence. Of course the Oilers trio will out-produce the Flames' centers, but head to head? Flames might be able to neutralize them effectively. This will be interesting. At any rate, even if you feel my ranking is too high, the center depth is an absolute strength, not a weakness.
Wingers: Huberdeau, Toffoli, Mangiapane. That's 3 bona fide top 6 wingers. This includes an elite-level winger (Huberdeau) and a very analytically strong play-driving winger in Mangiapane that doesn't need the PP to produce. Plus, you still have good young wingers to grow into their roles like Dube, Pelletier, Ruzicka now (I assume he will be a winger now), etc. decent depth and high-end talent.
Coaching: This is Darryl Sutter. Name 4 better coaches than him on different teams. You can't.
I can't really point at any weaknesses or glaring holes on the roster. There will be centers that out-produce Calgary's trio of centers, but I think very few will be able to match-up head to head as well. Calgary's strength down the middle is in part because they are all very good defensive centers.
My prediction: Flames will probably stay close to 6th overall in goals for this season. With Kadri and Weegar, I think it really closest the gap for Tkachuk, especially if Dube or another winger take a small step forward which is likely. Flames will be the number 1 team defensively though (they were 3rd last year, and only 6 goals from being tied for 1st with Carolina (and the Flames had 12 goals less than 4th place Boston).
Flames are still not in the "Colorado, Tampa" level of contender, but I do think they are in the Carolina, St. Louis, Minnesota level - that very next tier. That's down-right amazing considering their best player walked for absolutely nothing, and their only other franchise-level player forced a trade.
As others have said, top 6 RW is still a problem right now.
Tofolli didn’t prove last year that he’s still a top line guy. I’m happy with him on the second line with Kadri, but that would leave a gaping hole on our top line. Slotting him on the top line works if we had stronger support on the second line though.
I also don’t think that Coleman should be a) broken up from Backlund b) playing top 6 minutes. I think he clearly will be the weak link of our scoring lines.
The other option is to hope that Pelletier surprises and take that slot.
However, I think the most realistic option is that we move Hanafin+ for a top winger before the season starts.
It was never that the re-build option was ridiculous. In fact I think there was quite broad support on this community for it.
I think the primary push back was that most people recognized it wasn't plausible. Meaning, the team simply wasn't going to do it based on where the core of this team is/was, and the historic behaviors of the ownership group.
It's the difference between asking SHOULD the team re-build and WILL the team re-build.
As I've said, you can debate if they are picking the right strategy, but at some point it only makes sense to shift the debate to how well they are executing the strategy that they've selected.
The Hockey PDOcast did an episode on the Flames right after the Tkachuk trade with Thomas Drance, former Panthers PR guy, and he commented on the rebuild argument. He made some good points -
Vezina nominee goalie
Jack Adams coach. It's Sutter, all-time great and cup winner.
Top 2 team in GAA
Defense is top 5 in the league, if not top 2. Tanev is a top 5 defensive dman in the league
Selke nominee #1 center, and a second line center who is better defensively than the aforementioned selke nominee
A rebuild is not a realistic or reasonable approach with a group like this. He also argued that even if they just removed Tkachuk from their roster without getting anything back they'd still compete for a playoff spot in this division
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Originally Posted by JobHopper
The thing is, my posts, thoughts and insights may be my opinions but they're also quite factual.
The Hockey PDOcast did an episode on the Flames right after the Tkachuk trade with Thomas Drance, former Panthers PR guy, and he commented on the rebuild argument. He made some good points -
Vezina nominee goalie
Jack Adams coach. It's Sutter, all-time great and cup winner.
Top 2 team in GAA
Defense is top 5 in the league, if not top 2. Tanev is a top 5 defensive dman in the league
Selke nominee #1 center, and a second line center who is better defensively than the aforementioned selke nominee
A rebuild is not a realistic or reasonable approach with a group like this. He also argued that even if they just removed Tkachuk from their roster without getting anything back they'd still compete for a playoff spot in this division
So Thomas Drance is arguing that if the Flames lost Johnny & Tkachuk for nothing, they wouldn't miss a beat?
I absolutely hated Kadri when he was on the leafs... and then he raises his stock by not only by winning the Cup but beating Edmonton handily in the process. And then he ends up on none other than our Calgary Flames.
You overpay in free agency, either for term, cap hit or both. If Kadri has matured and also manages to maintain his intensity and speed for at least the first couple of years of this deal, then okay.
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Think Twitter making us write like caveman speak
So Thomas Drance is arguing that if the Flames lost Johnny & Tkachuk for nothing, they wouldn't miss a beat?
If they scored 60 fewer goals and won 8 fewer games, they still make the playoffs last year. There's a lot of room between "comfortably winning the division" and "competing for a playoff spot"
Sure, if you're replying to "Lindholm can't be a good winger", but you're not. Nice strawman. It's a terrible idea because he's a Selke finalist. Keep him at center.
Lehtinen won it three times as a right winger. Who's to say Lindholm can't do the same? Look, I'm not saying you guys are wrong, just that I don't think it's clear cut and I'm gonna need a stronger case than that to be persuaded, and especially to be persuaded that it's the "worst idea ever".
The way I see it, stack the top line or spread the scoring is a perpetual dilemma for coaches.
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Originally Posted by Newton
I mean I'm sure the real GM would have liked that too - but it was not mathematically possible ... signing Kadri without trading Mony is a cap violation.
It was never that the re-build option was ridiculous. In fact I think there was quite broad support on this community for it.
I think the primary push back was that most people recognized it wasn't plausible. Meaning, the team simply wasn't going to do it based on where the core of this team is/was, and the historic behaviors of the ownership group.
It's the difference between asking SHOULD the team re-build and WILL the team re-build.
As I've said, you can debate if they are picking the right strategy, but at some point it only makes sense to shift the debate to how well they are executing the strategy that they've selected.
And I think the time to decide to get hard for bedard was a couple of years ago, or at least before last season. The teams that are going to be in the bottom 10 and be lottery eligible are not teams that are going to pass us in the standings. Nor are they teams that will trade their picks. No one want's to trade off that 2023 1st unless they are 100% certain they are finishing clearly out of the lottery. So really, Tre could choose between gearing up to stay competitive, or trying to fire sale in the hopes that we were not only bad enough to have good odds for the lottery , but that we would also be successful in winning the lottery. Look how many 1OA's the coilers got before they struck gold with a top tier 3rd OA and then a generational talent. Plus it's a hard sell to get an arena deal when reverse retro means going back to the young guns.
If the Oilers plan to keep McDavid, they’ll be paying him $15 mil plus when he is in his mid-late 30s. Draisaitl will be at least $12 million I expect.
If NM is likely looking at 14+ next year, I fail to see DrySaddle getting much less. Not that I see him as anywhere as good as NM, but unless his performance drops off substantially, there will definitely be teams with enough space to decide to go all in. I know they are trying to pre-cope up the highway by convincing themselves he won't want much more, but he's at times been as big or a bigger part of the Oilers wins as the Conna, while making 1/3rd less money than him. He's going to get paid, and the body of work from up north is that if he is staying pissy, it will be with an early extension that overpays, because Holland makes his worst deals when he's negotiating against himself.
And I am extremely doubtful Conner take less than max or near max on his next contract. It will be his final big money deal, and he will know he has the oilers over a barrel.
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You are quoting points? And comparing Rasmus to Pietreangelo? Come on. He was one of the first three named for Canada for the last Olympic team (that didn’t go). The other two were Crosby and Mcdavid.
Ok. So Rasmus is in the same bucket as Pietreangelo before he won? It's too much of a reach.
I like the team...especially the D. But this team is missing an elite blueliner. Rasmus isn't that guy. Sorry.
Yeah I don't think the Flames have what most would consider a prototypical #1 defenseman. I'm sure you can bring up stats showing that a couple of defensemen deserve to be called #1 defensemen but I see the Flames with a lot of really good #2 and #3s.
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