[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

not to mention he did all of that in the dead puck era. Iginla in his prime was a terror.

Imagine what he could have done in today's games, where you could not obstruct him, hold him and interfere with him.

He got enough of a taste of it in the post-lockout era. He played through the great Obstruction Crackdown of 05, and he only had 67 points. But for sure, his 96 point 2002 is something else - Naslund was the only other player to break 90, and none of the other top-10 scorers that year, including Sakic, Jagr, Sundin, Modano, Oates Bertuzzi etc were within 11 points of him.

In this era, I suspect he’s still a top-3 winger in the game, and in a given year, could be the best player in the world.

But I don’t think this era of hockey is set up to produce another Iggy. I think the 1980s were. The man is a sports movie come to life. The Barack Obama of hockey players.

This era is about nitpicking and arguing about what’s sustainable (hint: none of it).

Whereas 80s hockey is more romantic and adventurous. There’s a mythic quality to it, whether it’s the stars of the era, the violence, the Mickey Mousery off the ice, the games against the Soviets when the world was always 45 minutes away from ending (which it still is, but we just pretend it isn’t)… that’s how you end up creating Jarome Iginla.

This age of hockey is lacking that sort of colour. And I understand why it’s the way it is, but I really wish it weren’t. It’s not all about stick handling. Iggy was an okay stick handler, but it was probably his weakest element.

The way Iggy played the game was righteous, and I don’t think very many guys have that in them anymore.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by robertsfanatic

a little orange julius type of news but i had a conversation with someone who is in the hockey world that said MT was not liked by his teammates because of his attitude.

edit: and Sutter wasn't a fan of his either.

Sutter did cut his ice time by a fair margin when he originally got the job, it wasn't until he put him with Lindholm and Gaudreau that he got his ice time back.

It was a similar situation to what we see now when the media assumed that sutter would love Tkachuk and instead he dropped his ice time considerably. https://thehockeywriters.com/flames-...e-for-concern/

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

He got enough of a taste of it in the post-lockout era. He played through the great Obstruction Crackdown of 05, and he only had 67 points. But for sure, his 96 point 2002 is something else - Naslund was the only other player to break 90, and none of the other top-10 scorers that year, including Sakic, Jagr, Sundin, Modano, Oates Bertuzzi etc were within 11 points of him.

In this era, I suspect he’s still a top-3 winger in the game, and in a given year, could he the best player in the world.

But I don’t think this era of hockey is set up to produce another Iggy. I think the 1980s were. The man is a sports movie come to life. The Barack Obama of hockey players.

This era is about nitpicking and arguing about what’s sustainable (hint: none of it).

Whereas 80s hockey is more romantic and adventurous. There’s a mythic quality to it, whether it’s the stars of the era, the violence, the Mickey Mousery off the ice, the games against the Soviets when the world was always 45 minutes away from ending (which it still is, but we just pretend it isn’t)… that’s how you end up creating Jarome Iginla.

This age of hockey is lacking that sort of colour. And I understand why it’s the way it is, but I really wish it weren’t. It’s not all about stick handling. Iggy was an okay stick handler, but it was probably his weakest element.

The way Iggy played the game was righteous, and I don’t think very many guys have that in them anymore.

One of the best posts I have ever read on here. You won’t find many flames fans who love Iginla like I do. But man did you nail this topic. The reality is, there will never be another Jarome Iginla. We didn’t realize at the time at just how special he was on and off the ice.

[powderjunkie]

I'm sure interpretations vary, but I've always taken unicorn to mean really, really unique - no obvious comparable immediately comes to mind - moreso than simply being an exceptional player.

Iginla/Shanahan/Neely/Keith Tkachuk/Tim Kerr/even Gordie Howe/Bobby Hull/etc - certainly there are some differences among them, but they feel like a very, very similar mould.


Tkachuk is pretty unique...Marchand seems like the closest comp in terms of a highly skilled pest who is very good defensively. Marchand is very small and one of the fastest skaters (Pat Verbeek? Theo Fleury?)...Tkachuk is above average size and glacial.

Rick Tocchet, Owen Nolan, maybe Gary Roberts come to mind, but all three feel much tougher/more physical than Tkachuk, and are moreso finishers without Tkachuk's creativity/playmaking. Maybe Scott Hartnell is closer?

A few other obvious unicorns for me:

Chara...Hedman is the only thing kinda close, but they've got a lot of differences

Datsyuk...elements of lots of different guys, but I can't really think of anyone who puts it all together like him.

I guess Gaudreau probably qualifies, too...he feels unique compared to most other small guys who were burners+snipers.

Of course a lot of the all-time greats qualify, too, but IMO that's a bit of a different conversation.

[Strange Brew]

Tkachuk’s 200 foot game is maybe being underrated here. He is good in his own end, rather unusual for a guy who scored 100 points.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Tkachuk’s 200 foot game is maybe being underrated here. He is good in his own end, rather unusual for a guy who scored 100 points.

I don’t think so. He’s a winger, the D men and Center do all the heavy lifting. Does Tkachuk do a good job once the puck comes his way? Ya, he does. But being a winger in your own zone is by far the easiest position.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Tkachuk’s 200 foot game is maybe being underrated here. He is good in his own end, rather unusual for a guy who scored 100 points.

His center and coach were pretty big factors

Many of his numbers come down this season not just points IMO

Calgary had the 2nd lowest goals against, most of them have pretty amazing fancy stats

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Sutter did cut his ice time by a fair margin when he originally got the job, it wasn't until he put him with Lindholm and Gaudreau that he got his ice time back.

It was a similar situation to what we see now when the media assumed that sutter would love Tkachuk and instead he dropped his ice time considerably. https://thehockeywriters.com/flames-...e-for-concern/

Sutter pushed him to bring it every shift...got him paid. Both Gaudreau and Tkachuk benefitted greatly from Sutter.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

To me Tkachuk is a good first line player
Florida is paying him to be a franchise player. He may be that
But he ain't generational. I would reserve that for guys like Crosby, AO, McDavid, Matthews and Makar
Vasilevesky perhaps a generational goalie. Shesterkin could be one

They’re paying him to be their second best forward IMO, not franchise.

[JohnnyB]

No doubt, we were incredibly fortunate to have Iggy to watch over so many years. He was just the total package on and off the ice in terms of how he represented the team.

[SaskyFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

They’re paying him to be their second best forward IMO, not franchise.

I’d agree, franchise players will be paid 12-14 mil going forward. Mackinnon is going to set that bar soon, others will follow. The Oilers will be interesting with Draisaitl in 2 years when he is eligible for extension. How much do they pay him knowing McDavid is next.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

His center and coach were pretty big factors

Many of his numbers come down this season not just points IMO

Calgary had the 2nd lowest goals against, most of them have pretty amazing fancy stats

I thought Tkachuk was strong in his own zone before Sutter and Lindholm. When he played with Backlund that was often the clubs best line while Gaudreau was stuck with Monahan.

He is a high end first line player who plays in all situations. He might not repeat his point total from this season or if he plays with Barkov he might again find himself on the best line in hockey.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by SaskyFlamesFan

I’d agree, franchise players will be paid 12-14 mil going forward. Mackinnon is going to set that bar soon, others will follow. The Oilers will be interesting with Draisaitl in 2 years when he is eligible for extension. How much do they pay him knowing McDavid is next.

15M each, 8 years, or both walk.

[SaskyFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

15M each, 8 years, or both walk.

Has a very Kane/Toews feel to it for sure, minus the cups and important stuff.

[Geeoff]

Tkachuk's 2nd best season, he played with Backlund and Frolik, so is capable of being the best offensive player on his line

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

15M each, 8 years, or both walk.

Worth it. Cap will probably be $110-$120m in 5 or 6 years. Thing is, they'll get that from anyone. They probably move on if 2022 can't be topped

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I thought Tkachuk was strong in his own zone before Sutter and Lindholm. When he played with Backlund that was often the clubs best line while Gaudreau was stuck with Monahan.

He is a high end first line player who plays in all situations. He might not repeat his point total from this season or if he plays with Barkov he might again find himself on the best line in hockey.

He wasn't bad before but he was MUCH better at everything after Sutter took over...all data shows it

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by SaskyFlamesFan

I’d agree, franchise players will be paid 12-14 mil going forward. Mackinnon is going to set that bar soon, others will follow. The Oilers will be interesting with Draisaitl in 2 years when he is eligible for extension. How much do they pay him knowing McDavid is next.

It's going to be fun to see. Will he be asking for $12.5M and McDavid $15M? Plus Nurse getting paid $9.25M and Soup boy $5M, that is $41.75M for 4 players. Even if the cap goes up to $100M, they only have $58M for 19 players. Who can they LTIR?

[calgarygringo]

I know it's a gamble but if I was in my prime coming out of Junior like I was 45 years ago (LOL)or a Hubie I may want to think about only a 3 or 4 year deal tops. I know it would be a gamble but with the $$$ expected to go up and I agree the next contracts of the big boys coming up the 14 or 15 mil/year is going to be normal at that level. The Huber contract is going to look like a steal at 10.5 in a few years for the Flames if this happens. I wouldn't doubt that is also the reason why they are trying to tie up all these current contracts (Johnny, Chucky incl) to long term as they will all look like super deals a few years from now and not just the tie them up for long term.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Pundits weren’t calling the trade a unicorn scenario. They were calling Tkachuk a unicorn player, and well before he announced he wasn’t going to sign a new contract with the Flames.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah, to me the implication is Tkachuk is a player who does it all.

Oh I didn't realize that. I never saw the original statement(s), I just saw posts about it here, and just naturally thought the "unicorn" thing was the scenario of him being available, not he himself being the unicorn.

I mean, I do see some uniqueness to him, in that he's a Marchand that fights... and maybe in today's crop of new players that's a bit of a unicorn(?)... but I myself would have never though to describe him that way. I mean, the idea of a Tkachuk being available is a unicorn for sure, but not he himself.