[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[TheoFleury]

Power forwards combine size, toughness and soft hands. They hit hard and possess elite puck protection skills. There might be 5 true elite power forwards at any given time. Tkachuk is closer to Marchand or Burrows than a typical power forward but possesses high end hockey IQ that is almost peerless along with a remarkable 200 foot presence. He's also pretty slow, has a huge ego and is not a natural leader IMO. He's a unicorn in the sense that he's the only player with his combination of traits but that doesn't make him a superstar. He might be the worst skater in hockey and I think he might be more of a 25-30g 45a+ guy going forward than the fantasy of 100+ ever again. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great player but he's not in the top tier with the Kucherovs just yet or probably ever. Even after 6 years, I still can't wrap my head around him completely, so I guess he is a unicorn lol

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Matthew Tkachuk is not a 200ft player, he was the third best defensive player on a line of three players

Gaudreau without Sutter going forward will be interesting to watch. I bet he doesn't finish +60 combined over his 7 years there, much less one season. Tkachuk will have Barkov, it's going to be impossible to compare but you are right about Lindholm. He might be the best center to play in Calgary since 1995

[schteve_d]

I can say it now. I'm glad Tkachuk is gone. I just never really warmed up to him. I found him hard to defend against other team's fan's pestering. He was a bit like Phaneuf to me; full of himself, over-hyped and always came across as kind of a dbag.

I'm not likening him to Kane but sometimes you get a player on your team that you just don't like and you feel the need to defend him anyway because he's "one of yours". I'm sure some Oiler fans are doing that now. Again, he's not the same, but I hated when the Flames signed Bertuzzi and Marchment. I get the "crest on the front, not the name on the back" stuff, but I still want to like the players, or my impression of the players, that I cheer for.

I already know that I'm going to like Huberdeau much more than I ever did Tkachuk.

[bax]

This thread is becoming embarrassing. There is no need to lessen Tkachuk’s impact now that he isn’t a Flame.

He is an absolute stud and his contract will be a bargain for Florida. He’s a special player.

With that being said the Flames did amazingly well given the circumstances. I still can’t believe it.

Both things can be true

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by bax

This thread is becoming embarrassing. There is no need to lessen Tkachuk’s impact now that he isn’t a Flame.

He is an absolute stud and his contract will be a bargain for Florida. He’s a special player.

With that being said the Flames did amazingly well given the circumstances. I still can’t believe it.

Both things can be true

I disagree, and it’s not because he’s gone. I told everyone in my circle the Flames should be selling high on him. Happy he’s gone.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by bax

This thread is becoming embarrassing. There is no need to lessen Tkachuk’s impact now that he isn’t a Flame.

He is an absolute stud and his contract will be a bargain for Florida. He’s a special player.

With that being said the Flames did amazingly well given the circumstances. I still can’t believe it.

Both things can be true

How many 90+ point seasons do you think he will put up next 8 years? Just curious. I think he will end up with around 550-600 points or so over the term of the contract but if he doesn't figure out the playoffs, it won't really matter and Florida got weaker this year with that deal and the future could be tight with no picks. Bob and Hornqvists contracts are anchors and IMO their D looks worse than Edmonton if Ekblad gets hurt again or has a down year. They will probably have to deal Knight eventually because of Bob and they lack assets and cap to address the backend. Tkachuk is great but Bennett and Reinhart/Duclair aren't Johnny and Elias, and I feel most of the hockey world now sees him as a 100+ point guy. That was probably his career year and his new team is in tough to improve from last year for all the reasons I mentioned

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by bax

This thread is becoming embarrassing. There is no need to lessen Tkachuk’s impact now that he isn’t a Flame.

He is an absolute stud and his contract will be a bargain for Florida. He’s a special player.

With that being said the Flames did amazingly well given the circumstances. I still can’t believe it.

Both things can be true

time will tell, there was no shortage of posters cringing at the thought of paying him even 9M this upcoming season though. Many posters have had concerns about Tkachuk on a superstar contract this isn't just a recent thing.

Points per season
48
49
77
61
43
104

[USflamesfan]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Power forwards combine size, toughness and soft hands. They hit hard and possess elite puck protection skills. There might be 5 true elite power forwards at any given time. Tkachuk is closer to Marchand or Burrows than a typical power forward but possesses high end hockey IQ that is almost peerless along with a remarkable 200 foot presence. He's also pretty slow, has a huge ego and is not a natural leader IMO. He's a unicorn in the sense that he's the only player with his combination of traits but that doesn't make him a superstar. He might be the worst skater in hockey and I think he might be more of a 25-30g 45a+ guy going forward than the fantasy of 100+ ever again. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great player but he's not in the top tier with the Kucherovs just yet or probably ever. Even after 6 years, I still can't wrap my head around him completely, so I guess he is a unicorn lol

I totally agree...I think the loss of Huberdeau as a puck distributor significantly hampers their offense. I dont think Tkachuk approaches the season he had last year ever again without an elite passer him.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by dino7c

time will tell, there was no shortage of posters cringing at the thought of paying him even 9M this upcoming season though. Many posters have had concerns about Tkachuk on a superstar contract this isn't just a recent thing.

Points per season
48
49
77
61
43
104

For him to be worth his contract, he probably only needs 80+ points a year with the other elements he brings. Thing is, the hype I'm seeing makes me think the expectation should be better than 'worth the contract. 80 points is not easy either. Tkachuk's only done it once, even Johnny only 3 times...

Predicting he'll get around 70+ points per year isn't insulting him, it's reasonable imo. However, I think tons of people are expecting 90+... kinda unrealistic for anyone except 4 or 5 dudes

Zito calling him generational is the kind of comment you hear in a fantasy keeper league from a buddy who has had too much to drink and he's trying to sell high or something lol. Hearing an NHL GM say that? Wow lol. Generational is a talent that appears every 15 years, Tkachuk is in the conversation for top 10 wingers for sure but it's the least valued position for a reason

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by bax

This thread is becoming embarrassing. There is no need to lessen Tkachuk’s impact now that he isn’t a Flame.

He is an absolute stud and his contract will be a bargain for Florida. He’s a special player.

With that being said the Flames did amazingly well given the circumstances. I still can’t believe it.

Both things can be true

Not lessening him because he's gone. I just never really liked him much. He had a few amazing plays scoring between his legs that were really special, but for the most part he didn't really have much impact on me as a fan.

I haven't seen enough of Huberdeau play to say if he's more or less impressive to me than Tkachuk was, but he does seem more likable. Either way, I can say with certainty that I don't feel bad about Tkachuk leaving.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by dino7c

time will tell, there was no shortage of posters cringing at the thought of paying him even 9M this upcoming season though. Many posters have had concerns about Tkachuk on a superstar contract this isn't just a recent thing.

Points per season
48
49
77
61
43
104

Those are pretty good numbers for a guy who spent the first 4 years playing on the second line with Backlund and Frolik. He scored 35 one season playing with those guys, but people act like scoring 40 on the first line with other top line players is a one time thing he'll never do again.

Also, a power forward is a term used to describe a "player who can physically carry the puck to the front of the net." All the other things like big hits and fighting and heavy board play are nice-to-have qualities, but they predominantly belong to other roles, such as checkers, enforcers and grinders. In terms of offensive roles, there are perimeter distributors (playmakers), net drivers (power forwards) and finishers (snipers). Matthew Tkachuk is probably a 10%/70%/20% distribution of those three roles, making him a power forward by designation.

There is a lot of revisionist garbage going on in this thread. Chucky put up 35 goals and 77pts playing on the second line with Backlund and Frolik. I think he's going to be just fine playing on Florida's top line with Barkov and Reinhart.

And yeah, you guys got me. I thought he was 23, but I guess he's 24. Joke's on me there!

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by USflamesfan

I totally agree...I think the loss of Huberdeau as a puck distributor significantly hampers their offense. I dont think Tkachuk approaches the season he had last year ever again without an elite passer him.

He's going from being an elite complimentary star who knows he owes his linemates a great deal for boosting him to a situation where he's going to have guys leeching off of him. Don't get me wrong, I think he will do well but his scoring totals are going to take a hit for sure IMO. Even if the top line came back this year, it's unlikely they would get higher than 85% of last year. A year where everything went right playing with stars to a situation where everything won't go right and he's playing with lesser complimentary types instead

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by bax

This thread is becoming embarrassing. There is no need to lessen Tkachuk’s impact now that he isn’t a Flame.

He is an absolute stud and his contract will be a bargain for Florida. He’s a special player.

With that being said the Flames did amazingly well given the circumstances. I still can’t believe it.

Both things can be true

It’s really the small group of people that are die hard Flames fans. Can’t expect them them to be reasonable. On the other hands, there are bunch of Panthers and Oilers fans that now claim Tkachuk is unicorn and franchise type

So it’s just all even out….

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It’s really the small group of people that are die hard Flames fans. Can’t expect them them to be reasonable. On the other hands, there are bunch of Panthers and Oilers fans that now claim Tkachuk is unicorn and franchise type



So it’s just all even out….

I have a friend who is an oilers fan who went from trashing Tkachuk as an overrated rat who was barely a step up from Kassian at one point (his words) for years until suddenly and shamelessly mocking how the flames traded the best winger in hockey. We've all said stupid things defending laundry but oilers and leafs fans are a step higher, even the reasonable ones. It's like trying to debate flat earthers basically

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

I have a friend who is an oilers fan who went from trashing Tkachuk as an overrated rat who was barely a step up from Kassian at one point (his words) for years until suddenly and shamelessly mocking how the flames traded the best winger in hockey. We've all said stupid things defending laundry but oilers and leafs fans are a step higher, even the reasonable ones. It's like trying to debate flat earthers basically

It’s the same people who said we lost the trade unless they can sign Huberdeau, and then said we lost the trade because of the contract we signed him to.

I’ve just stopped listening/reading what these people say, it will always be a twist to negative some way. It’s just exhausting.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Those are pretty good numbers for a guy who spent the first 4 years playing on the second line with Backlund and Frolik. He scored 35 one season playing with those guys, but people act like scoring 40 on the first line with other top line players is a one time thing he'll never do again.

Also, a power forward is a term used to describe a "player who can physically carry the puck to the front of the net." All the other things like big hits and fighting and heavy board play are nice-to-have qualities, but they predominantly belong to other roles, such as checkers, enforcers and grinders. In terms of offensive roles, there are perimeter distributors (playmakers), net drivers (power forwards) and finishers (snipers). Matthew Tkachuk is probably a 10%/70%/20% distribution of those three roles, making him a power forward by designation.

There is a lot of revisionist garbage going on in this thread. Chucky put up 35 goals and 77pts playing on the second line with Backlund and Frolik. I think he's going to be just fine playing on Florida's top line with Barkov and Reinhart.

And yeah, you guys got me. I thought he was 23, but I guess he's 24. Joke's on me there!

I have never said he was bad or anything other than very good
its 9.5M superstar stud I'm not 100% sold on

Just pointing out this isn't the first time people have had concerns about Tkachuk's skating or said that his is over rated on CP...long before any thought of trades or not signing.

I think if you go back there were a lot of posters concerned about the 9M qualifying offer when he signed the last deal.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

For him to be worth his contract, he probably only needs 80+ points a year with the other elements he brings. Thing is, the hype I'm seeing makes me think the expectation should be better than 'worth the contract. 80 points is not easy either. Tkachuk's only done it once, even Johnny only 3 times...

Predicting he'll get around 70+ points per year isn't insulting him, it's reasonable imo. However, I think tons of people are expecting 90+... kinda unrealistic for anyone except 4 or 5 dudes

Zito calling him generational is the kind of comment you hear in a fantasy keeper league from a buddy who has had too much to drink and he's trying to sell high or something lol. Hearing an NHL GM say that? Wow lol. Generational is a talent that appears every 15 years, Tkachuk is in the conversation for top 10 wingers for sure but it's the least valued position for a reason

I don't think we should read too much into Zito calling him generational. Zito kind of have to say that to hype Tkachuk up to justify what he gave up on the trade. He gave up a fantastic playmaker, a top pair D, a promising prospect and a 1st, of course he has to say something like, "look I got us a generational player, those don't come along very often."

[bax]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

I disagree, and it’s not because he’s gone. I told everyone in my circle the Flames should be selling high on him. Happy he’s gone.

42 goals
104 points
elite defensive metrics
draws more penalties than any other player

“Happy he’s gone”

Lol you must be hard to impress.

You can absolutely love the return and still acknowledge Tkachuk was a fantastic player for Calgary and will continue to be one for Florida

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by bax

42 goals
104 points
elite defensive metrics
draws more penalties than any other player

“Happy he’s gone”

Lol you must be hard to impress.

You can absolutely love the return and still acknowledge Tkachuk was a fantastic player for Calgary and will continue to be one for Florida

You are only using his best season if we are being fair...you say his Florida contract is a "bargain"

Happy he is gone is too strong but happy with the trade is more than fair. I 100% do this deal if Tkachuk is willing to stay, massive win. Can't even imagine Tkachuk coming back at 10.5M without Gaudreau...would have been a disaster IMO.

what point total do you expect for a 9.5M bargain?

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Those are pretty good numbers for a guy who spent the first 4 years playing on the second line with Backlund and Frolik. He scored 35 one season playing with those guys, but people act like scoring 40 on the first line with other top line players is a one time thing he'll never do again.

Also, a power forward is a term used to describe a "player who can physically carry the puck to the front of the net." All the other things like big hits and fighting and heavy board play are nice-to-have qualities, but they predominantly belong to other roles, such as checkers, enforcers and grinders. In terms of offensive roles, there are perimeter distributors (playmakers), net drivers (power forwards) and finishers (snipers). Matthew Tkachuk is probably a 10%/70%/20% distribution of those three roles, making him a power forward by designation.

There is a lot of revisionist garbage going on in this thread. Chucky put up 35 goals and 77pts playing on the second line with Backlund and Frolik. I think he's going to be just fine playing on Florida's top line with Barkov and Reinhart.

And yeah, you guys got me. I thought he was 23, but I guess he's 24. Joke's on me there!

Then you should be absolutely ecstatic about having a guy that just put up 115 pts playing with Bennett and Duclair.