Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Mull]

I can't believe people think its wrong to criticize the Chief Medical Officer because she worked during a pandemic. That isn't a free pass. Nor is shifting the blame on every negative thing she did to the UCP.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Mull

I can't believe people think its wrong to criticize the Chief Medical Officer because she worked during a pandemic. That isn't a free pass. Nor is shifting the blame on every negative thing she did to the UCP.

Do you understand how government works? Civil servants inform and advise the elected government. Then the elected government makes policy, and civil servants carry it out.

Hinshaw only failed in her role if she gave Kenney’s government bad advice, or if she did a poor job of communicating the government’s policy to health care workers and the public.

[MoneyGuy]

I have a tonne of respect for the head doctors who took so much crap while leading us through the pandemic. I'm not defending everything they did but that includes Hinshaw and Dr. Anthony Fauci in the U.S. who in his 80s could be enjoying retirement instead of dealing with people who wish him physical harm and think he should be in prison.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I can't believe people are criticizing Dr. Hinshaw. If anyone deserves a bonus it's her - I'm sure she's had a stressful couple years with near daily press conferences, constant scrutiny, and having to make decisions that are bound to be criticized extremists on both sides regardless of outcome.

Heehaw started off well but then she became a deplorable after being brainwashed/threatened by the UCP.

She is an embarrassment for all doctors. Imagine wanting to stop covid testing during the peak of delta when all the hospitals were overwhelmed to combat syphillis. eff off!

[Knut]

It's not a bonus. It is contractual overtime she is entitled to.

It is just bad optics with cuts to health care.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I have a tonne of respect for the head doctors who took so much crap while leading us through the pandemic. I'm not defending everything they did but that includes Hinshaw and Dr. Anthony Fauci in the U.S. who in his 80s could be enjoying retirement instead of dealing with people who wish him physical harm and think he should be in prison.

Yeah, and its something we also have to be cognizant of, I think its something that we are going to have very differing opinions about as time goes on.

Here we are talking about the Pandemic like its over already, but over the past few months especially after the restrictions were largely repealed, I think people have to be careful about 'revisionist history.'

The Doctors had no idea what they were doing in the beginning. Because nobody did. They were just rolling with the best information they had at the time and looking around to see what other communities were doing.

Its disingenuous to evaluate March 2020 decisions with August 2022 perspective.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, and its something we also have to be cognizant of, I think its something that we are going to have very differing opinions about as time goes on.

Here we are talking about the Pandemic like its over already, but over the past few months especially after the restrictions were largely repealed, I think people have to be careful about 'revisionist history.'

The Doctors had no idea what they were doing in the beginning. Because nobody did. They were just rolling with the best information they had at the time and looking around to see what other communities were doing.

Its disingenuous to evaluate March 2020 decisions with August 2022 perspective.

Which is fine if it was March 2020, which she was doing a good job at that time.

But this was July 2021 when Heehaw wanted to drop covid testing and restrictions to combat a STD.... I highly doubt Fauci would have done that or recommend that.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think it's entirely fair to criticize those things and still have no issues with the wage though. She could go be a doctor in private practice with much less stress and things to deal with (and a correspondingly lower wage), or take on all the other responsibilities as CMOH and get paid this amount. It makes sense to me.

And as far as the restrictions and politics, that's basically on the UCP. She gave them the information and they made those decisions.

Yeah, for sure. I'm critical of her, but not of her salary. She earned it.

The reason I lay the religious exemption thing at her feet is because I take one look at her and can tell she's one of those dopey Christians singing away her Sunday. Idk, just not a fan of the type.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Do you understand how government works? Civil servants inform and advise the elected government. Then the elected government makes policy, and civil servants carry it out.

Hinshaw only failed in her role if she gave Kenney’s government bad advice, or if she did a poor job of communicating the government’s policy to health care workers and the public.

For the record, my comment isn't about her salary, I already made my view clear about that and it isn't condemning her.


Edit: Is the below not true? Is she not acting in a professional capacity as a doctor when she spoke and signed off on directives? If so my point starts to loose its footing but I think she is given her title and her signature.


She is not a politician, nor is she a normal pubic servant -she is acting as a doctor in a professional capacity and therefore bound by those ethics:
She signed off on the health orders
She signed off on the memos
She spoke on the podium

IF she didn't think this was best for the people of Alberta, she was ethically obligated to speak up publicly, resign or not sign her name off on the plans- let the elected people put their signature there. She didn't speak up or resign and publicly endorsed the path forward. Tough gig but she signed up for a tough gig and put her name endorsing many of the UCP actions, she doesn't get to hide behind the UCP. Even if shes not a doctor, you as an individual still are represented by what you sign your name to and say.

She sent the memo to the family doctors saying they would test Covid in their clinics in the height of the delta wave in Aug 2021. Clinics with other sick people, clinics not set up to get mass people coming in for testing, clinics that simply wouldn't have the resources to do this, or frankly the family doctors wouldn't have the time - they aren't exactly basking in off time.

She told the family doctors she had statistics and models to support this was the right call. The deadline came when she was going to provide- nothing happen. A week went by and I think it was another week before the data was presented- it was concluded by anyone I spoke to about it that the "data" was a joke.

A joke was shown to be true when they ended up reverting their decision after the family doctors lost their ####.

I am hoping an actual family doctor responds and can see how off or correct my history is here.

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, and its something we also have to be cognizant of, I think its something that we are going to have very differing opinions about as time goes on.

Here we are talking about the Pandemic like its over already, but over the past few months especially after the restrictions were largely repealed, I think people have to be careful about 'revisionist history.'

The Doctors had no idea what they were doing in the beginning. Because nobody did. They were just rolling with the best information they had at the time and looking around to see what other communities were doing.

Its disingenuous to evaluate March 2020 decisions with August 2022 perspective.

On many many many aspects of the pandemic I agree. Do we open up schools early or close them, do we allow freedoms of people or reduce to protect more people, I 100% agree hard and impossible choices were made that even today we can't properly evaluate.

But no, not on all things, see my response to the other poster at the start of this message.

[Aarongavey]

They also paid a private security firm 262,000 dollars last year to protect her from the anti-vaxxer, freedom loving crazies. So that is a great use of taxpayer dollars.

[Fuzz]

Danielle Smith's medical care guidelines at work, folks. Stage 3, totally under their own control with the right combination of woo woo and wee waa.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Which is fine if it was March 2020, which she was doing a good job at that time.

But this was July 2021 when Heehaw wanted to drop covid testing and restrictions to combat a STD.... I highly doubt Fauci would have done that or recommend that.

I wonder if maybe, just maybe, some of the most highly trained, experienced, and engaged professionals in their fields have a differing opinions and positions than us who twiddle away on social media during work hours.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Heehaw started off well but then she became a deplorable after being brainwashed/threatened by the UCP.

She is an embarrassment for all doctors. Imagine wanting to stop covid testing during the peak of delta when all the hospitals were overwhelmed to combat syphillis. eff off!

She started off well when her policies aligned with my ideology but then got worse when her policies didn’t.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by 81MC

I wonder if maybe, just maybe, some of the most highly trained, experienced, and engaged professionals in their fields have a differing opinions and positions than us who twiddle away on social media during work hours.

LOL. How about all these ER Docs who criticized HEEHAW then? Yeah she sucks. Oh and guess what. She had to backtrack because she finally woke the eff up about it 2 weeks later.

Dr. Joe Vipond, an emergency room doctor in Calgary and co-founder of advocacy group Masks4Canada, called Hinshaw's column a "non-apology."

"She's apologizing for the way it was communicated, not for the content of the policy. And there are still serious concerns about the policy," Vipond told CBC News.Vipond said some of Hinshaw's arguments can easily be picked apart, like her point that dropping COVID-19 measures allows the province to better focus on other health concerns.

"If we let things go, we are going to be dealing with exponential COVID and a big, bad flu season. But if we put in simple measures like mandatory masking, we can actually keep both at bay," he said.

In an open letter earlier Wednesday, a group of 10 physicians from the Edmonton Zone Medical Staff Association said Alberta is going against the advice from Health Canada, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the World Health Organization.

The letter also draws attention to threats posed by the COVID-19 delta variant and the potential for pediatric and adult intensive care units to become overwhelmed should Alberta continue with its approach.

Dr. Noel Gibney, an Edmonton-based critical care physician, signed the letter. He said it's the Alberta government's nature to take risks but its recent move is inconceivable.

"Alberta does not have its population well vaccinated despite what they say," said Gibney, noting only 56 per cent of Alberta's total population is vaccinated. That leaves about two million people without full protection.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

She started off well when her policies aligned with my ideology but then got worse when her policies didn’t.

sounds like someone got a bad case of syphilis.... lol

[Regorium]

I applaud Hinshaw for being one of the few doctors that seemed to always be looking for a safe path towards getting back to normal, rather than many other doctors in Canada that chose more easy solutions. Even now we have our Federal government still "following the science" by re-instituting random testing at airports.

Of course when you're the trailblazer trying to make very difficult decisions, rather than the easy decision of staying the course, you could get burnt.

It's always easy to doomsay and rip someone apart, but it's way harder to build a plan that strikes the fine balance of all the factors that a public health officer has to consider.

[81MC]

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6540431

Bunch of ####ing ####s running this province. Sat on it for two years, and now using the current situation to justify not releasing it...wtf? Release it when it was available to you, morons.

Man, I get it, some of us don’t like left policy. But this UCP continues to demonstrate absolute disregard for basic ethics and acts in the polar opposite of Albertans interests.

There’s 1 reason this wasn’t released in 2020, and it had nothing to do with Covid.

[Mull]

I am one of the more critical people of Hinshaw in the last few pages of this thread, but what is with this "Heehaw" bull#### people are posting?

You can be critical of our Chief Medical Officer's work without name calling. It seems very Trumpy to do so. Name calling also doesn't reflect negatively on her at all.

I don't get it.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by 81MC

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6540431

Bunch of ####ing ####s running this province. Sat on it for two years, and now using the current situation to justify not releasing it...wtf? Release it when it was available to you, morons.

Man, I get it, some of us don’t like left policy. But this UCP continues to demonstrate absolute disregard for basic ethics and acts in the polar opposite of Albertans interests.

There’s 1 reason this wasn’t released in 2020, and it had nothing to do with Covid.

I know you know the answer but just to provide the quote for you:

The expert panel — which cost the provincial government about $24,492 — was a reaction to the former NDP government's decision to raise the minimum wage in October 2019

Can't provide a document that makes a NDP policy look good. Or, that is what I assume since the UCP won't release the document.

[iggy_oi]

My MLA who is running for the UCP leadership approached me at a pub to try and convince me to buy a membership and vote for them. I think it’s safe to say that the conversation didn’t go as they were anticipating.