Family tension over will and estate?

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think we are saying the same thing. Peoples perception of “fairness” is what causes these fights regardless of the legal answer

My only disagreement with your post was that the amount of money at stake matters. This can happen over $5000 or even just sentimental belongings of little cash value.

When my wife’s grandparents died the siblings fought over some porcelain dolls. Like maybe $200 worth.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by getbak

One thing I'd say is no matter what you decide to do, don't do anything with the money until you're sure everything is settled and you've received the clearance certificate from the CRA.

If you decide to give your sister half and then a few months down the road, it turns out there's a bunch of unexpected money owing, you don't want to have to try to get it back from your sister.


By waiting, it puts some time between the emotions of the moment and deciding what to do. If your mom brings it up again, tell her that you have to wait for things to get finalized before you know what the final amount will be and you'll deal with it then.

Also, if you're the sole executor and you're also dealing with cleaning up his place and dealing with his possessions and everything without any help from your sister or mother, make sure you're fairly compensated for your time dealing with that too. It's not easy and can take a lot of time and effort to deal with everything. There can be a lot of driving around and you might need to take time off work to go to banks, lawyers, accountants, realtors, etc.

Plant the seeds now that just because the insurance payout is X, it doesn't mean you'll just be walking away with X in your pocket. That way, whatever you do end up giving to your sister, the expectation should not be that it will be 50% of X.

This is some of the best advice.

[Ducay]

Agree with Getback, don't pay anything until its all settled. And then if/when that time comes and you think it is best for the relationship to pay her out, you can use the tax/fees piece to help sell whatever amount you so choose to pay her (if less than 50%)

In addition to 'planting' those seeds around total amount, if you feel like you will ultimately pay her anything, I would tell your sister before your mom does. Let her know he left you as sole executor and benefactor but you'lll share it with her once its all settled and you see how much taxes and fees end up being. Then the whole thing is hopefully painted in a 'you being generous' light, vs a greedy light.

[Locke]

Okay, I'll chime in again.

You should never dispense funds from an Estate until all the dust has settled.

Never.

Because the CRA or other creditors DGAF where their money comes from, so if you've spent it, dispersed it or whatever else they're still going to want their cash so make sure you dont pay anything out until everything has been concluded.

From there I would recommend faking your own death and retreating into the Andes mountains and living a life of virtue and solitude.

[Twitchy15]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I might be mistaken, but I think the scenario in the OP, was that the dad had nothing, other than some life insurance. I don’t think a trust fund was in the cards.

Otherwise, I would say sure. Try and give that money when you are still alive. I get that sentiment.

Edit: As Cliff says, it can be tricky. My parents are In the same boat. They probably have enough to live until the end, but they are constantly worried about the higher costs near the end. Ultimately it is their money and they can do what they want with it.

Yeah essentially living paycheque to paycheque his entire life. Since being sick and getting paid for being on disability essentially he probably had the most he has ever had in his bank account. Essentially less then $30,000 and recently like 4-6 months ago bought a small suv for appointments and going to work. He never got to use the vehicle for those reasons and it’s a pos imo doubt he shopped around but had to pay off the loan which was $6000 left.

Rrsp had less than $45,000 and life insurance was about two times his salary which was ~50,000.

So I didn’t expect to get much. It’s not a huge amount of money but it’s fairly significant for my life and my sister.

Sister never said anything about wanting anything. Mom didn’t mention sharing anything until she realized it was a large chunk of money.

He definitely still loved my sister and wanted the best for her he mentions with his vehicle I could keep sell or give to her. So he would
Be happy if she got some money I’m sure he just probably was mad in the moment and thought why give her anything.

[Twitchy15]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Just because 'you' think it's fair or unfair doesn't mean it is. There's a bazillion perceived unfair things in life.

The will says Twitchy15 gets 100%. That's fair. I think this is an easy case for lawyers no?

Twitchy15 is fighting with morality which sucks. Was the mom estranged from the dad too? It seems weird that she's involved now and not before.

They have been divorced since I was 5. Some contact until I was maybe 10-14 but not much and essentially none since then I am 30 now. My mom and sister were helping me go through his stuff and clean his house which was nice as it was a lot of work. But she kind of blew up at me about the money bs also saying my wife was on a power trip and is in it for the money just saying wild things for no real reason.

[Twitchy15]

Originally Posted by getbak

One thing I'd say is no matter what you decide to do, don't do anything with the money until you're sure everything is settled and you've received the clearance certificate from the CRA.

If you decide to give your sister half and then a few months down the road, it turns out there's a bunch of unexpected money owing, you don't want to have to try to get it back from your sister.


By waiting, it puts some time between the emotions of the moment and deciding what to do. If your mom brings it up again, tell her that you have to wait for things to get finalized before you know what the final amount will be and you'll deal with it then.

Also, if you're the sole executor and you're also dealing with cleaning up his place and dealing with his possessions and everything without any help from your sister or mother, make sure you're fairly compensated for your time dealing with that too. It's not easy and can take a lot of time and effort to deal with everything. There can be a lot of driving around and you might need to take time off work to go to banks, lawyers, accountants, realtors, etc.

Plant the seeds now that just because the insurance payout is X, it doesn't mean you'll just be walking away with X in your pocket. That way, whatever you do end up giving to your sister, the expectation should not be that it will be 50% of X.

He did not own any property so not sure what would be taxed or not. Essentially just what’s in his bank account, I now have the vehicle in my name and then there will be life insurance money and rrsp. I know the rrsp will be taxed but I guess I’ll find out around tax time?

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Shazam

When my wife’s grandparents died the siblings fought over some porcelain dolls. Like maybe $200 worth.

There is some weird switch popping up in people’s heads (mostly in siblings, unfortunately) when there is anything left after a parent’s death. As Locke said, things get really ugly pretty fast and furious. I know a pair of wealthy lawyers - brother and sister - who stopped talking forever after the sister took mom’s couch without talking to her brother first. The old f…n’ couch! A colleague from a large ranching family of 5 siblings - all peaceful and graceful from an old-fashion Alberta small-town community - suing each other after one sister who lived with their old father in his last year somehow made him change his will in her favour a few months before his death. I mean how is all this unexplainable greed for a few bucks and a few chattels justified in people’s heads??? Beats me.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

There is some weird switch popping up in people’s heads (mostly in siblings, unfortunately) when there is anything left after a parent’s death. As Locke said, things get really ugly pretty fast and furious. I know a pair of wealthy lawyers - brother and sister - who stopped talking forever after the sister took mom’s couch without talking to her brother first. The old f…n’ couch! A colleague from a large ranching family of 5 siblings - all peaceful and graceful from an old-fashion Alberta small-town community - suing each other after one sister who lived with their old father in his last year somehow made him change his will in her favour a few months before his death. I mean how is all this unexplainable greed for a few bucks and a few chattels justified in people’s heads??? Beats me.

Oh man, the stories I could tell.

I once was doing Tax work for a family where the Father passed away and they had a family corporation, there were 4 siblings and the Mother.

The eldest daughter was the Executor of the Estate and an Executive of the Corporation and she was Executing the Will while simultaneously preparing to sue the Estate and contest the Will because since she was operating the family company she felt entitled to more.

That was Ugly with a capital 'U.'

I mean, to the point where I had to have the family members make separate appointments because if they were in my office at the same time we were frighteningly close to real physical violence.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by Twitchy15

Rrsp had less than $45,000 and life insurance was about two times his salary which was ~50,000..

Budget for 40% taxes on the RRSP so you’re not surprised. That 45,000 becomes 27,000.

[CaptainYooh]

I’ve recently read a book recommended by a retirement planner in conversation. Title is “Willing Wisdom: 7 questions to ask before you die”. The book is pretentious, nauseatingly sanctimonious and very poorly written; it took a bit of an effort to finish even though it’s short. But, it has one really important and great message: do not be afraid to talk about death within your family. Families that regularly discuss what happens if and when it happens, manage through the process much easier and healthier.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Twitchy15

They have been divorced since I was 5. Some contact until I was maybe 10-14 but not much and essentially none since then I am 30 now. My mom and sister were helping me go through his stuff and clean his house which was nice as it was a lot of work. But she kind of blew up at me about the money bs also saying my wife was on a power trip and is in it for the money just saying wild things for no real reason.

Really sorry to hear about your situation. Emotional overload.

[Amethyst]

In this situation, I would probably say that you need some time to figure out taxes and fees, but of course will share with your sister (no need to mention the split). If your mom keeps asking at that point, say, "Right now I want to concentrate on the funeral / cleaning out the house / whatever."

Then, once you know where things stand, you can decide what to do.

If your parents have been divorced for years and your sister is an adult, it really is none of your mother's business.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Shazam

When my wife’s grandparents died the siblings fought over some porcelain dolls. Like maybe $200 worth.

When my father-in-law died, one of the items he had was a 22 rifle. All he ever used it for was to kill an animal for butchering. He was in World War II and never hunted a day in his life after the war...hated guns...only had this rifle for farm use.

My husband, who was a hunter, kind of wanted that rifle and since he was the only one of the sons who had anything to do with guns or hunting, thought he would get it. Well, my brother-in-law, who never hunted or did anything with guns in his entire life, insisted on having that gun.

Anyhow, my husband never wanted to cause a fuss and said have it...but that is how silly some get when there is a death in the family.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Twitchy15

They have been divorced since I was 5. Some contact until I was maybe 10-14 but not much and essentially none since then I am 30 now. My mom and sister were helping me go through his stuff and clean his house which was nice as it was a lot of work. But she kind of blew up at me about the money bs also saying my wife was on a power trip and is in it for the money just saying wild things for no real reason.

Wow, when the mom blames the daughter in law it's over.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Wow, when the mom blames the daughter in law it's over.

At that point I’d invite the mom to leave, for everybody’s peace of mind.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Wow, when the mom blames the daughter in law it's over.

Especially over a significant but not life changing amount of money. That would be very upsetting to me and I would, to some extent, resent my mother for doing that.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Especially over a significant but not life changing amount of money. That would be very upsetting to me and I would, to some extent, resent my mother for doing that.

Well, I think what he's getting at is that it isnt a 'life-changing' amount of money for him, but it might be for his sister.

Either way, I usually advise people never to bank on inheritances. Live your life as though you're probably not going to win the Lottery.

Then little bonuses are a 'nice extra.'

For instance, my kids better not be banking on getting anything from me, because if they are then that 'disappointment train' is going to deal them a crushing blow.

And sorry, as soon as a family member blames a spouse that is way, way offside and spiraling into really bad territory.

[Reggie28]

I feel for you Twichy, such a difficult situation to be put in. I thank you for having the courage to bring it to the forum, as I am sure many, including myself, will eventually be facing a similar situation.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Locke

Oh man, the stories I could tell.

I hear that...