Huberdeau and Weegar Signing Discussion Thread

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Okay…say hube and Weegar say absolutely not interested. What would you have done then?


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Depends on team goals. If you're trying to remain competitive go look elsewhere, you need players with term. If this forces you to rebuild, look for draft picks and futures. I get the idea of bringing in Huberdeau and Weegar and rolling the dice in trying to sign them or flip them. After the debacle of Gaudreau and Tkachuk I would have looked for some stability and not rolling the dice. I'm hopeful this all works out, would have pushed for more immediate certainty, mostly because I've become risk adverse over the years.

[traptor]

Doesn't matter that Tre didn't discuss with them the value is undeniable.

Even if you don't re-sign them, and instead trade them as rentals you would get a haul.

Both would get you atleast a 1st+2nd+3rd worth of value(e.g giroux, Hamp lind, any rental from tdl really).

That combined with the other assets we got from chucky is a pretty significant haul considering the circumstances. Could come out with 4+ 1st round picks worth of value.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Not if Florida grants them permission to speak to the players, which Calgary should have demanded so they could complete their due diligence. Calgary granted Florida access to Tkachuk so they could do their due diligence and give a bottom-line number and contract details for the sign and trade. Or do you think the Flames negotiated the terms of the Tkachuk deal and Florida just accepted whatever was in that deal?

Just no.

We've seen the reported St. Louis offer. The Panthers were adding pieces to a package that they didn't need to out of fear of getting out bid by St. Louis and perhaps Carolina.

Don't make a demand that slows the process down and potentially makes Florida wonder if they're over paying, when you don't need the players signed to make the deal a victory to begin with.

Just start the damn car!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

So Florida gets to dictate controls in the trade and do their due diligence so they get full value in the trade, but the Flames should not? WTF? Might explain why this team continues to go nowhere. They refuse to do their due diligence to control what should be rightly theirs to control.

No Florida gets to bid against themselves and overpay in assets.

The Flames don't need to get in the way of the other side stepping on their own nards.

Just say "done" and get it over with quickly.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by traptor

Doesn't matter that Tre didn't discuss with them the value is undeniable.

Even if you don't re-sign them, and instead trade them as rentals you would get a haul.

Both would get you atleast a 1st+2nd+3rd worth of value(e.g giroux, Hamp lind, any rental from tdl really).

That combined with the other assets we got from chucky is a pretty significant haul considering the circumstances. Could come out with 4+ 1st round picks worth of value.

See, this is the part that is troubling. There is no guarantee of this happening. Each trade deadline is extremely volatile and not consistent with the last. Some teams may be willing to give up a lot, while others are extremely stingy. There is no guarantee. One thing we know for certain, blue-chip prospects rarely get traded at the deadline for rentals. We haven't seen a real blue chipper go since Forsberg was traded for Erat a decade ago. We also know that teams have been very hesitant to trade 2023 picks, so that may continue, even into the deadline as teams look to leverage the deep 2023 draft. We may be kicking this can further and further down the road, which we know is always a bad thing with Canadian teams and impatient Candian fans. Certainty for the Canadian teams is a really big thing. I'm hoping that by Labor Day that both Weegar and Huberdeau are inked to new contracts and this is all solved for a good long time.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I see no reason to criticize this trade either, it was a home run for the Flames.

But there is a different group of posters who will reply to every single critical post defending any move the current GM has ever made. So it does cut both ways.

For sure and I honestly find the examples you're quietly listing of the defend everything pretty annoying as well to be honest. It's too much.

But ...

I do think being on a Flames fan board and thinking everything is puppy dogs and rainbows is more understandable than doing whatever you can to be a human speed bump towards hapiness.

I mean honestly ... aren't we supposed to be biased and too positive? What's the definition of "fan"?

an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator. 2 : an ardent admirer or enthusiast

Don't see "wet blanket" or "realist" in those definitions.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Depends on team goals. If you're trying to remain competitive go look elsewhere, you need players with term. If this forces you to rebuild, look for draft picks and futures. I get the idea of bringing in Huberdeau and Weegar and rolling the dice in trying to sign them or flip them. After the debacle of Gaudreau and Tkachuk I would have looked for some stability and not rolling the dice. I'm hopeful this all works out, would have pushed for more immediate certainty, mostly because I've become risk adverse over the years.

There isn't much risk if you set your own internal deadline to get them signed, like they essentially did with Tkachuk.

If you take it into the season, play well, get forced to keep them, then lose them for nothing it was a big mistake.

The mistake hasn't happened yet.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Just no.

We've seen the reported St. Louis offer. The Panthers were adding pieces to a package that they didn't need to out of fear of getting out bid by St. Louis and perhaps Carolina.

Don't make a demand that slows the process down and potentially makes Florida wonder if they're over paying, when you don't need the players signed to make the deal a victory to begin with.

Just start the damn car!

I agree with that. On paper this is a stunning return. It just needs to turn into something tangible long-term, one way or another. Huberdeau and Weegar give the Flames the pieces to possibly be better than last season. Just need to find one more forward that can score - a common refrain from years gone by.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Electricprez

I like this trade and think it is good

"This trade is freaky and I like it a lot"

Spoiler!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I agree with that. On paper this is a stunning return. It just needs to turn into something tangible long-term, one way or another. Huberdeau and Weegar give the Flames the pieces to possibly be better than last season. Just need to find one more forward that can score - a common refrain from years gone by.

Short of giving both players way way too money, the only way they can now mess up this victory is by going into next season with both on expiring contracts without an "out" plan that makes sense.

If you have a deal them no matter what plan ... fine. That works.

But guessing it's easier to sell the fan base on moving them in late August than it is in February with the team in 2nd place in the Pacific.

[djsFlames]

I like how you spoiler tagged Yolanda.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Short of giving both players way way too money, the only way they can now mess up this victory is by going into next season with both on expiring contracts without an "out" plan that makes sense.

If you have a deal them no matter what plan ... fine. That works.

But guessing it's easier to sell the fan base on moving them in late August than it is in February with the team in 2nd place in the Pacific.

I think you actually hit the 2 button. 1st in the Pacific.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

For sure and I honestly find the examples you're quietly listing of the defend everything pretty annoying as well to be honest. It's too much.

But ...

I do think being on a Flames fan board and thinking everything is puppy dogs and rainbows is more understandable than doing whatever you can to be a human speed bump towards hapiness.

I mean honestly ... aren't we supposed to be biased and too positive? What's the definition of "fan"?



Don't see "wet blanket" or "realist" in those definitions.

Couldn't agree more. But it's the repetition I find tiring.

You don't think this was a great trade? Ok I find that a little odd but you're no less a fan in my book and I'm not going to judge how happy you are either. But enough is enough, no need to repeat the argument endlessly. You're not going to convince anyone

You think Treliving is a great GM? If cheering for the guys in suits is your thing, all the more power to you. Do you have to respond to every comment that might be critical of the guy?

You think Treliving is awful? OK, but maybe expand your mind to accept that he is capable of doing good things. Like this steal of a trade.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Depends on team goals. If you're trying to remain competitive go look elsewhere, you need players with term. If this forces you to rebuild, look for draft picks and futures. I get the idea of bringing in Huberdeau and Weegar and rolling the dice in trying to sign them or flip them. After the debacle of Gaudreau and Tkachuk I would have looked for some stability and not rolling the dice. I'm hopeful this all works out, would have pushed for more immediate certainty, mostly because I've become risk adverse over the years.

Fair. I think the beauty of this trade is that it let's you go either direction.

IMO the opportunity for a competitive 'get younger' re-tool has sailed. It's what I wanted before TDL 2020, but I don't really see a sustainable path anymore. Unless the blue chip is from the last draft or two, then they will probably end up out of sync with the next cycle.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Couldn't agree more. But it's the repetition I find tiring.

You don't think this was a great trade? Ok I find that a little odd but you're no less a fan in my book and I'm not going to judge how happy you are either. But enough is enough, no need to repeat the argument endlessly. You're not going to convince anyone

You think Treliving is a great GM? If cheering for the guys in suits is your thing, all the more power to you. Do you have to respond to every comment that might be critical of the guy?

You think Treliving is awful? OK, but maybe expand your mind to accept that he is capable of doing good things. Like this steal of a trade.

Well that just about does it for pretty much any hockey discussion then, I guess.

So...you guys wanna talk about Israel or something?

[keenan87]

May it help with the Huberdeau signing if he was given captaincy? Give him the team and build around him and Lindholm.

Random thought - I also think Lindholm could be the next captain.

[Vinny01]

Flames were put in a really tough spot this year. With Sutter and Treliving entering the last year of their deals and losing their 2 best players they were in a tough spot. Adding Huberdeau and Weegar allow this team to continue on the path of contention. It was an unbelievable deal considered to be perhaps the biggest blockbuster of the cap era. End of the day all parties involved could be in it for one year.

I also believe there is a want from all parties to get long term deals done. Both players are coming off big years and in the flat cap era it makes sense to secure your contract while you can. It eliminates the noise and would certainly ease the fanbase.

[MrMike]

At this point we may never have a captain again.
But I have a hard time not giving it to Backlund.

[Steve Macfarlane]

Have you all seen the Huberdeau agent Allan Walsh podcast, Agent Provocatuer? He gave a little insight into the trade and confirmed they had no discussions before the deal - which is why it was such a shock to Huberdeau. But that openness to signing seems real and the Flames have the funds so in the end it's at least 50/50. Getting eight years in Florida was what he wanted, wants to be wanted by a team, Calgary offers a place where he can be the face of a franchise and have a shot to win if he sticks around.

https://calgaryhockeynow.com/calgary...t-allan-walsh/

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Well that just about does it for pretty much any hockey discussion then, I guess.

So...you guys wanna talk about Israel or something?

I think Netanyahu screwed up. He should have got permission from Iran to speak to Hezbollah prior to annexing any more of the West Bank. Now they'll be stuck in a period of rebuilding if they can't get a long-term agreement worked out.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Steve Macfarlane

Have you all seen the Huberdeau agent Allan Walsh podcast, Agent Provocatuer? He gave a little insight into the trade and confirmed they had no discussions before the deal - which is why it was such a shock to Huberdeau. But that openness to signing seems real and the Flames have the funds so in the end it's at least 50/50. Getting eight years in Florida was what he wanted, wants to be wanted by a team, Calgary offers a place where he can be the face of a franchise and have a shot to win if he sticks around.

https://calgaryhockeynow.com/calgary...t-allan-walsh/

It makes business sense for Huberdeau to sign with the Flames sooner rather than later. Negotiating off of a 115 point season is a great starting point. If his point total falls in Calgary, it could cost him millions in his next contract. Plus, the Flames need a PR win here and can't really stomach another star player leaving in the same calendar year that they lost Gaudreau and Tkachuk. You know that Walsh is going to use that to his advantage as Calgary is likely ready to pay more than a lot of other teams would.

I was pretty pessimistic about him signing initially, but now I think he does just because it makes business sense for him. If Huberdeau signs an extension and really isn't happy after a couple of seasons, he can always request a move. The Flames typically honour trade requests, which I think helps when signing players who are still unsure.