Huberdeau and Weegar Signing Discussion Thread

[TheScorpion]

Calling Huberdeau an "aging winger" is laughable. He just turned 29 and scored 115 points on a team where nobody else got 90.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Calling Huberdeau an "aging winger" is laughable. He just turned 29 and scored 115 points on a team where nobody else got 90.

The non-stop spin is great eh?

‘My friend showed me a photo and said “Here's a picture of me when I was younger". Every picture is of you when you were younger.’

- Mitch Hedberg

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Calling Huberdeau an "aging winger" is laughable. He just turned 29 and scored 115 points on a team where nobody else got 90.

Playing largely with Duclair and Bennett no less.

[CF84]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think Gaudreau was a top 3-5 player in the NHL with his skill-set and IQ. I mean, last year he was literally tied for 2nd overall, so that essentially proves it, but I always thought he was at least in the top 5 in terms of outright skill/IQ combo. If he was 6'0", he would probably be considered generational. I also think he was really strong defensively. Sutter himself called Gaudreau the team's best checker. He did that well. One-on-one physical battles? Not so much, but backchecking, forechecking, active stick, puck pressure - he caused a lot of turn-overs. Gaudreau was very good in all zones last year.


How does that compare with Huberdeau?



It doesn't fricken matter. That's how.



How good defensively was Gaudreau under Gulutzan, Peters or Ward? Terrible, that's how. We will find out how good Huberdeau will be defensively. My guess is "just as good", and probably better than Gaudreau defensively last season just because he is physically more capable of winning one-on-one battles. He was playing on the PK in Florida last season (which I have mixed feelings about offensive stars playing on the PK).


Huberdeau will be really good defensively because Huberdeau is similar to Gaudreau with his high IQ and skill-set. We don't have to take anything away from Gaudreau last season - he was franchise level in almost every single way, and that was fantastic - we got to really enjoy his last season in Calgary. Now I think we will really enjoy Huberdeau's first season in Calgary (and I hope it won't be the last).


I am interested to see how good Huberdeau plays under Darryl. Yes, he had a career season, but if you watch Florida play there are some similarities - Florida plays with a lot of pace to their game too. Weak defensively, but with a tonne of puck pressure. Flames play a similar way, but more of an emphasis on puck-pressure in all zones. I think Huberdeau will fit in really well I bet.



Let's see how Huberdeau builds chemistry with whomever he plays. Hopefully that comes quick. This is a bit out of left-field, but I would like to see Pelletier get a shot on the top line. Why? Pelletier is known for being a 2-way player, he adjusted to the pro game very well, and we all know he is a talent. Throw him up there in the preseason for a couple of games and see how he does with Huberdeau and Lindholm. If not, I say that's Mangiapane's spot to lose.


The rest of the roster - will be interesting to see how it shapes up. I am sure Treliving is knocking on doors and seeing which players are available, and seeing what FAs would make good fits.


I disagree with trading any of the top 4 defencemen, however. I think there was more in losing to Edmonton than simply Tanev getting hurt (Edmonton is just good at throwing Calgary off their game), but Sutter spoke about the relatively inexperience of the blue-line as being a weakness of the team. Weegar I feel really solidifies this blue-line. Keep it intact. If you are going to try and make a run, you not only need defensive depth, but you need a strong top 4. Calgary has that finally again.

Beautifully said.

[Philly06Cup]

Originally Posted by heep

Gaudreau hasn’t played an elite 200ft game in his life in the NHL. Under Sutter his defensive/away from puck game went from terrible to passable. But he has electric game breaking agility, vision and playmaking ability offensively.


By many metrics, Johnny was literally one of the best defensive forwards last year. Elite plus minus; elite possession, backcheck, forecheck. Put on the ice vs others top lines, at the end of games.



Huberdeau is a more complete player, not sure how you could argue against that, if you’ve watched both.


See above. Those jfresh charts and other analytic graphs also show Huberdeau to be bad defensively, despite him playing PK. The X-factor of course is Sutter, contrasting Florida's run and gun style. For now, what we do know is that Johnny can be elite defensively, while Hubey hasn't shown that.



They’re in the same tier and it’s not a LOL to argue one is better than the other.



For me, what is LOL is the immediate rose colored glasses that Huberdeau is this mega superstar. No, I don't think he's close in player to Gaudreau. Imagine a Team Canada at the Olympics: Huberdeau has never been in conversation until this outlier year; would say Johnny makes it in most years if he were Canadian. If the Flames pay what some are suggesting, they will be buying high and possibly handicapping themselves in the future. Would be happy if he proves me wrong. In Sutter we trust

..

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Playing largely with Duclair and Bennett no less.

That's actually ridiculous.

[InternationalVillager]

Anyone making negative remarks or throwing shade at Huberdeau clearly has never watched him play enough. He is the best player to play for the Flames since Iginla …and it’s not even close.

He has 346 points in his last 286 games. He has been much higher than point per game in his last 4 seasons so age 25 onwards. Stop the nonsense and just enjoy watching him play and be grateful.

[dino7c]

Huberdeau was on every team Canada projected roster...most of them as the top line LW
To say Flames fans are being homers about him now is what's laughable

Guy just beat an all time record at his position for assists

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I think this is a good point. Right now we only have three players under contract past 2023/24: Coleman, Andersson and Markstrom. I think it would be prudent to get at least a few more core pieces locked up while the cap is “low”.

Incidentally, the Athletic did a feature on the top 10 contracts in the league based on current value, term remaining, etc. Gaudreau’s new deal was in the top 10, Makar was number 1. Under “honourable mentions” they included Rasmus Andersson (who has four years left at $4.55M AAV).

https://theathletic.com/3438736/2022...contracts-2022

I don’t have a subscription but noticed you didn’t mention Lindholm

That’s one of the best contracts in the league right now

[djsFlames]

Flames pull the best LW in the world.

"But he's slow"
"But he's soft"
"But he's aging"

What do people actually want? Truly astounding.

We thought we were getting a six pack and half eaten donuts and we got a Gaudreau upgrade instead.

A minor miracle, all thanks to Zito having heart eyes for Tkachuk.

But yes, let's look hard into the well of delusion for reasons to somehow be dissatisfied with this.

[dino7c]

This is sounding a lot like "Lindholm has a bad shot"

[SixtySix]

days later it still feels like a dream to me that Huberdeau is a Flame

what a trade

[bax]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I don’t have a subscription but noticed you didn’t mention Lindholm

That’s one of the best contracts in the league right now

This was before Tkachuk signed too, but the author has mentioned that he would be in the top 5 now.

It’s based on total value- with Lindholm only having 2 seasons left he falls short.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by SixtySix

days later it still feels like a dream to me that Huberdeau is a Flame

what a trade

I know, right? We got the best player in the deal. And a top 4 defenseman. And a decent prospect. And a 1st. Just incredible all around.

Which makes it even funnier that some people still have to find ways to be negative about it. The "Huberdeau can't skate" take has to take the cake, especially since we traded away Tkachuk in the very same deal. I really don't know why it always has to be glass half empty.

We acquired an outstanding player here. He scored 115 points while primarily playing with Bennett and Duclair, for crying out loud (and that was actually the most frequent line the Panthers used all season, LINK). I can't wait to see him out there with Lindy.

[Monahammer]

Yeah, I'm still awestruck that we were able to get the only LW in the league who was even in the conversation of being better than the two we had and just lost. I don't care about the nitty gritty here like some of you, just the relative saving of value that treliving was able to execute. Fantastic.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Gaudreau wasn't a totally free-market value, but he got 9.75 for age 29-35 years.

We'd be talking about Hube's age 30-37 years. 1 fewer prime year/2 more old years. 8x9.75M should be considered significantly more than JG's actual deal.

I'd say 8x9.75M should be about equal to the 8x10.5M CGY offered Gaudreau - Huberdeau's 37 year old season should be worth at least $6M less than Gaudreau's 29 yo season, accounting for the $84M vs. $78M total contract values.

But you could argue that Huberdeau is the better player, so that has to factor in.

[PeteMoss]

Gaudreau's best attribute on defense is his ability to carry the puck and break out of the zone. He's not and was not a guy winning puck battles or anything like that, but if you got the puck to him, he is probably top 2 or 3 guys in the world at switching from defense to offence which obviously is super important. That's a skill that Huberdeau isn't at the same level as Gaudreau at. Huberdeau has other attributes that Gaudreau didn't have obviously.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I see Gaudreau and Huberdeau are equitable pieces. We better hope his agent agrees so we can use Gaudreau's contract as the benchmark for getting Huberdeau extended.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I don’t have a subscription but noticed you didn’t mention Lindholm

That’s one of the best contracts in the league right now

I think in that article they would have discounted it because it’s coming close to an end.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

But you could argue that Huberdeau is the better player, so that has to factor in.

Fair, and I'd tend to agree, but overall I just don't think there is much daylight in between them at all.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think in that article they would have discounted it because it’s coming close to an end.

Don't have a sub so can't read the article, but it really depends on the criteria. Unless a guy signs it between age ~21-25, I think you should generally assume a 7-8 yr deal has negative value at the end, and also generally less trade value throughout.

Obviously a lot depends on where your team is in their cycle, but in most cases I'd take a shorter team great AAV over a long-term 'fair' AAV as it gives so much more flexibility.