[News] Tkachuk notifies Flames he won't sign long term (The Athletic)

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Bonded

But if Neighbors + 1st is the best offer do you think the Flames should take it?

What makes you think something like this would be the best offer? Serious question. Ben Chiarot fetched a 1st, a 4th and prospect as a pure rental at the deadline. Tkachuk comes with a long-term extension. I get people feel the need to pump the brakes regarding the return, but this a mid-20 forward who's coming off a 100 point season and is going to re-sign long-term. That has to - and surely will - be reflected in the return.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bonded

But if Neighbors + 1st is the best offer do you think the Flames should take it?

Yup. Can't let another top end player walk away for nothing. Have to get something out of Tkachuk even if it is disappointing. It is why a hockey trade, and a complex hockey trade, is most likely the way we get the most out of this move.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Wood

Has New Jersey came up as a frontrunner? They're the team I'd like to deal with the most

I think a package of Holtz + 2023 1st with one of Bratt or Mercer would be great. I'd throw in a pick or prospect as well to make sure it's a 2023 1st and not 2024

We don;t even know for sure if NJ is on the list, although we expect they are.

[Strange Brew]

If you can’t deal him before the season starts, you need to sit him. Can’t risk injury or declining production from last year.

There’s no way you risk playing him IMO.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Setting themselves up for disappointment is right.

Tarasenko (82 points) Kyrou (75 points) AND a 1st??

Hahaha

Then they'll blame Treliving when it's Kyrou, Neighbors and maybe a 2nd

But that’s actually a better deal. Neighbors was a first and Tarasenko is coming up on UFA. STL’s 1st is going to be a late first round pick anyway that likely lands us another gamble prospect that’s years and years away from playing.

[The Fonz]

Mercer + Holtz + Tatar + 2nd

for

Tkachuk


Trying to be as realistic as possible. Tatar is thrown in for cap purposes on NJD's end, and he'd likely just be flipped at the draft for another 2nd round pick for a net Tkachuk trade package of Mercer + Holtz + 2nd + 2nd.

[Samonadreau]

Would be hilarious if we wound up trading him to florida and Bennett was a cap dump return in the deal.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Yup. Can't let another top end player walk away for nothing. Have to get something out of Tkachuk even if it is disappointing. It is why a hockey trade, and a complex hockey trade, is most likely the way we get the most out of this move.

See I don't think it gets much worse than at the deadline personally. Every team has a prospect like Neighbors. I think they could do better than that at the deadline.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Mercer + Holtz + Tatar + 2nd

for

Tkachuk


Trying to be as realistic as possible. Tatar is thrown in for cap purposes on NJD's end, and he'd likely just be flipped at the draft for another 2nd round pick for a net Tkachuk trade package of Mercer + Holtz + 2nd + 2nd.

I think we have to get a 1st in 2023

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by devo22

What makes you think something like this would be the best offer? Serious question. Ben Chiarot fetched a 1st, a 4th and prospect as a pure rental at the deadline. Tkachuk comes with a long-term extension. I get people feel the need to pump the brakes regarding the return, but this a mid-20 forward who's coming off a 100 point season and is going to re-sign long-term. That has to - and surely will - be reflected in the return.

He doesn't come with an extension unless he signs an extension. And it will be a huge AAV extension, if signed.

Tkachuk will sign an extension if the team is right and the AAV and term are right. I'd pump the brakes until we know that there is a suitable team involved and they've agreed to terms.

This is not going to be a simple team. And a team giving up a ton of cap space will also be reluctant to give up premium multiple picks and prospects for taking on so much space.

Tkachuk has value to be sure, but it's not like he is still on his ELC.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I think we have to get a 1st in 2023

Nope we have to get value. Don't get tunnel vision on restricting the deals, instead if teams are intent to hang on to 2023 picks than make them pay more with the other assets in the deal. Use it as an advantage.
If you can get more value by not including 2023 picks, then do that.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by devo22

What makes you think something like this would be the best offer? Serious question. Ben Chiarot fetched a 1st, a 4th and prospect as a pure rental at the deadline. Tkachuk comes with a long-term extension. I get people feel the need to pump the brakes regarding the return, but this a mid-20 forward who's coming off a 100 point season and is going to re-sign long-term. That has to - and surely will - be reflected in the return.

I agree the return should be higher but I am not going to be super mad if a trade doesn't go down. If a player like Kyrou isn't available from the Blues like Strickland has said then hold off. There is so little smoke right now that other GMs might just be offering crap.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It's an enticement to get Jersey to jump. I believe we get great value out of this trade and it really provides some core pieces moving forward. Coming out of this with Bratt, Mercer, Holtz, and then the two 1sts in 2023 (ours and Jersey's) really gives out system a massive boost. Add those guys to Pelletier, Zary, Coronato, Wolf, Kuznetsov, Poirier and company, and the light at the end of the tunnel looks less like a freight train.

Wouldn’t NJD just say let’s scrap all the 1sts on both sides…we’re not giving an unprotected ‘23?


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[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

He doesn't come with an extension unless he signs an extension. And it will be a huge AAV extension, if signed.

Tkachuk will sign an extension if the team is right and the AAV and term are right. I'd pump the brakes until we know that there is a suitable team involved and they've agreed to terms.

This is not going to be a simple team. And a team giving up a ton of cap space will also be reluctant to give up premium multiple picks and prospects for taking on so much space.

Tkachuk has value to be sure, but it's not like he is still on his ELC.

I think it is going to be a given that the Flames will be taking on cap to get a good return. If they are deadset on not taking back cap then they might as well wait for the deadline.

[Roof-Daddy]

I don't think you can get both Mercer and Holtz. Both guys still on their ELCs is valuable in the cap world.

Jersey could use Dmen too, I wonder where Hanifin is in all of this....if he wants out too you could package him with Tkachuk possibly.

But if we're just talking Tkachuk here, I'd be fine continuing to build a "Little Sweden" and take Bratt plus Holtz. Maybe you can get a draft pick too.

Graduate both Holtz and Pelletier this coming season could be fun to watch.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Nope we have to get value. Don't get tunnel vision on restricting the deals, instead if teams are intent to hang on to 2023 picks than make them pay more with the other assets in the deal. Use it as an advantage.
If you can get more value by not including 2023 picks, then do that.

I have a good amount of faith in Treliving when it comes to trades. I’m hopeful for the return.

…I do just really hope it’s not laser focused on “today”, which I can’t imagine it will be as the teams acquiring him are likely focused on “today” themselves, so best to subtract players not yet making a notable impact.

If New Jersey is one of the teams, Holtz makes a lot of sense to me as being the centrepiece from both sides of the deal.

With other teams I don’t feel it’s as cut and dry. This is going to be interesting to watch play out.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Mercer + Holtz + Tatar + 2nd

for

Tkachuk


Trying to be as realistic as possible. Tatar is thrown in for cap purposes on NJD's end, and he'd likely just be flipped at the draft for another 2nd round pick for a net Tkachuk trade package of Mercer + Holtz + 2nd + 2nd.

I would be quite disappointed if the Flames do not get a 1st rounder in 2023 included. This has to be a core piece.

Jersey has to move more cap. They have Boqvist, Bratt, and Woods as RFAs. Boqvist is probably going to cost them $1.5-2M on a short-term deal. Bratt is going to get $5-6M and Wood will do no worse than his qualifying offer of $3.5M. So you're talking $10-12M in additional cap with those players. They need help with dumping cap to fit Tkachuk in.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Wouldn’t NJD just say let’s scrap all the 1sts on both sides…we’re not giving an unprotected ‘23?


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Wouldn't Calgary just say you're not getting Matthew Tkachuk?

It's a negotiation and that's why all the specific parts are in the mix. It provides value and improvements in key areas for each team and balances out the risk.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Nope we have to get value. Don't get tunnel vision on restricting the deals, instead if teams are intent to hang on to 2023 picks than make them pay more with the other assets in the deal. Use it as an advantage.
If you can get more value by not including 2023 picks, then do that.

That's fair...I guess I am a bit tunnel vision as I am on the full rebuild train.

But maybe that's more of an after next season if the Flames miss the playoffs.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I would be quite disappointed if the Flames do not get a 1st rounder in 2023 included. This has to be a core piece.

I agree the 2023 would be nice, but in any event it will be protected.

Calgary is not getting Bedard from this trade.

Tampa Bay even lottery protects their first round pick trades.