[News] UPD: Tkachuk arbitration hearing set for Aug 11

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Most teams sign their UFA’s before they can actually go on the open market. That is just a fact. It is a large reason why it is super rare for too 10 scorers in the league to make it to the open market. The Flames decided to go a different route with Gaudreau for whatever reason. They did not sign him last summer for whatever , they agreed to his terms about not talking contract in the season and decided to try to sign him after the season.

Most teams sign their prominent RFA’s before their last season before UFA. Columbus did it with Werenski, Tampa did it with Point, Boston did it with McAvoy. All last summer, all on the same 3 year contract term as Tkachuk. Flames decided not to do that. They also decided to not trade him last summer.

Are there other teams that have let a player the quality of Gaudreau go to UFA and let a player the quality of Tkachuk get to one year within UFA in the same summer without signing either one? Not sure that has happened in the NHL before. Usually teams lockdown or trade a player before they can walk (like the Blue Jackets did in getting a former 1st rounder, a 1st, a 2nd and moving up 20 spots in the first round for Jones) before they lose all their leverage.

You haven't explained your plan in this case. Was it trading Gaudreau last summer? That was a bad idea. Some might say "insane".

Do you know that the Flames "decided" not to extend Tkachuk last year? Or did they try and he said no, thinking he needed a better season, similar to Gaudreau?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You haven't explained your plan in this case. Was it trading Gaudreau last summer? That was a bad idea. Some might say "insane".

Do you know that the Flames "decided" not to extend Tkachuk last year? Or did they try and he said no, thinking he needed a better season, similar to Gaudreau?

This is what I mean, once you have a statement of facts around the fact that two elite players want out of Calgary, you can argue about why. No other team has lost two assets like this in 14 days based on decisions made by the player before that I can remember, so this is definitely a first. You believe that reasonable efforts were made to prevent this and it is just bad luck. I think that it is incompetence from an asset management perspective.

100 percent I would either know they were staying or maximize value. I would not have hoped that two elite players would stick around to play on a team that could not make the playoffs in the powerful Canadian division last year.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I don't think Tkachuk wants out.
I think he wants more money than the Flames want to pay him and probably more time, but the organization is terrified to play this out the same way they did with Gaudreau.

Tkachuk is also kind if a victim of Gaudreau here, because everyone is assuming he'll do the same and he won't be given the same opportunity to play out another season and negotiate as it goes.
This may or may not be true, but he's been treated differently because of what just happened with #13.

So you are saying if Gaudreau has signed, they would let Tkachuk play out the year and talk contract next July?


I am sure that would work. Matt has dreamed about that scenario since he signed his last contract

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Americans don't want to play in Calgary. Don't draft them.

The much smarter thing to do would be to continue to draft the best player available, regardless of nationality, develop everyone the same way, but do not have faith in promises or verbal assurances from any players anymore. It's better to hold the rights of a Matthew Tkachuk and then be forced to trade a star than to hold the rights of an Olli Juolevi (thanks Canucks!) and trade him for Lammikko and Juulsen (lol Canucks).

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This is what I mean, once you have a statement of facts around the fact that two elite players want out of Calgary, you can argue about why. No other team has lost two assets like this in 14 days based on decisions made by the player before that I can remember, so this is definitely a first. You believe that reasonable efforts were made to prevent this and it is just bad luck. I think that it is incompetence from an asset management perspective.

100 percent I would either know they were staying or maximize value. I would not have hoped that two elite players would stick around to play on a team that could not make the playoffs in the powerful Canadian division last year.

I've come to accept that this management (and probably ownership) is not high on the asset management game. It's about playoff revenue and making the playoffs. Don't expect the team to properly rebuild, it's about getting in the playoffs and hoping for the best. Not intended as a slight, it's just the reality. Their actions have spoken for themselves. Let's hope we can get some players back who will be happy to play here and not bitch and moan about having to play in a small Canadian market.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This is what I mean, once you have a statement of facts around the fact that two elite players want out of Calgary, you can argue about why. No other team has lost two assets like this in 14 days based on decisions made by the player before that I can remember, so this is definitely a first. You believe that reasonable efforts were made to prevent this and it is just bad luck. I think that it is incompetence from an asset management perspective.

100 percent I would either know they were staying or maximize value. I would not have hoped that two elite players would stick around to play on a team that could not make the playoffs in the powerful Canadian division last year.

With all due respect, BS.

"I would have known" is not a plan.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Dogbert

This is why all the talk of trading Tkachuk for a massive return is likely a pipe dream. Nobody’s going to offer the kind of return we’ll want for a player who’s leaving in the off-season - or, in the Blues’ case, one they know would be coming in for free in a year.

I can’t see the return for Tkachuk being anything more than what you would expect for a trade deadline rental. Cap dump, okay prospect, first-round pick.

Why don't you just ignore all we know so you can focus on how bad the return will be? There is weeks now for a team to not only negotiate a trade but to negotiate a long term deal with Tkachuk. The Flames will get a much better return than the drivel you are proposing.

[DJones]

I wanted to trade Gaudreau last summer. Even when we were in the playoffs I wouldn't have been mad trading him at the deadline.

Going all in and risking that much on one year is foolish, smarter ways about it

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Gaudreau didn't have any idea either, according to his own words. And his actions were consistent with wanting to re-sign at a good price. Tkachuk has said the same sort of thing even after the season.

Your description was "insane". Like they totally bungled it with clear other/better avenues. So let's hear them.

He wanted to sign so bad, he took nearly 20 million less to play on a worse team. He must have really wanted to stay here.

The Flames are horrendous at asset management and having any type of foresight to be proactive. Gaudreau gone for nothing, Gio gone for nothing, Brodie gone for nothing, Iginla gone for pennies. Just have to hope and pray they finally get it half right with Tkachuk.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

With all due respect, BS.

"I would have known" is not a plan.

The Flames are part of a select few (as in 1) organization they did not seem to know what their two best players wanted to do in terms of staying or going. It is an elite club. Every other club seems to know, it is part of their asset management plan.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by DJones

I wanted to trade Gaudreau last summer. Even when we were in the playoffs I wouldn't have been mad trading him at the deadline.

Going all in and risking that much on one year is foolish, smarter ways about it

Tre would have been fired if he tried trading Gaudreau at the deadline.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by activeStick

The much smarter thing to do would be to continue to draft the best player available, regardless of nationality, develop everyone the same way, but do not have faith in promises or verbal assurances from any players anymore. It's better to hold the rights of a Matthew Tkachuk and then be forced to trade a star than to hold the rights of an Olli Juolevi (thanks Canucks!) and trade him for Lammikko and Juulsen (lol Canucks).

not every player dislikes Calgary to the same degree

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Flames are part of a select few (as in 1) organization they did not seem to know what their two best players wanted to do in terms of staying or going. It is an elite club. Every other club seems to know, it is part of their asset management plan.

Gaudreau ended up in Columbus after a last minute change of heart after he verbally accepted a contract. Why can't you accept the Flames just got screwed. Trading him last offseason wasn't going to make the team better and they were clearly going for it.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Tre would have been fired if he tried trading Gaudreau at the deadline.

Ya last summer would have been preferable. Ownership may have been delusional about resigning him but trading him was the correct choice.

Like really its no different than Tkachuk signing a one year deal this year. He 100% should be traded in that situation.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Gaudreau ended up in Columbus after a last minute change of heart after he verbally accepted a contract. Why can't you accept the Flames just got screwed. Trading him last offseason wasn't going to make the team better and they were clearly going for it.

Is that what Johnny said happened?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Flames are part of a select few (as in 1) organization they did not seem to know what their two best players wanted to do in terms of staying or going. It is an elite club. Every other club seems to know, it is part of their asset management plan.

So, despite Gaudreau and Tkachuk both saying the opposite, despite them both negotiating, and despite Gaudreau actually giving a number he'd sign at and then not doing it, you'd have known. Send your resume in.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So, despite Gaudreau and Tkachuk both saying the opposite, despite them both negotiating, and despite Gaudreau actually giving a number he'd sign at and then not doing it, you'd have known. Send your resume in.

I have a job so I am not really interested. Maybe one of the other 31 GM’s who have not had this happen to them would be interested in sending their resume in or the number of former GM’s who have not had this happen to them may send their resumes in.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I have a job so I am not really interested. Maybe one of the other 31 GM’s who have not had this happen to them would be interested in sending their resume in or the number of former GM’s who have not had this happen to them may send their resumes in.

LOL. Just because something never happened before (which I kinda doubt) it doesn't mean the blame lands in any particular place.

This one's mostly on Gaudreau IMO.

EDIT The apparently genius CBJ shed their two best forwards (and their 4th) a couple off seasons ago. Of course, as a pair not as good, but still their two best players.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Is that what Johnny said happened?

Francis and Steinberg said they almost publicly announced he was re-signed. Gaudreau dicked the Flames hard.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/48fYvRjnyICF8jCl8waCtb

[The Boy Wonder]

Can we also just take a step back and remember this is Eric Francis who went on the radio and said tkachuk would be traded???

Maybe he was right on gaudreau but a broken clock is right twice a day so don’t think we should put much stock in anything Francis is saying.