[News] UPD: Tkachuk arbitration hearing set for Aug 11

[redforever]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Broken hand for much of it.

He's only 24. Top playoff performers aren't made overnight.

And that broken hand was his own fault for being sucked into a fight. Kid has to mature and know when to pick his spots.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Insane makes it sound like there were lots of other, easily doable and obvious options. And that the options chosen was inevitably going to lead here.

Well, it was not insane to (a) not trade Gaudreau in 2021 after a poor couple seasons and with him still saying he could well re-sign; (b) not trade Gaudreau prior to the TDL when he was still making all the right noises (including making demands for specific numbers) and you are really just trading his rights (and then only to 5 potential teams unless he waives).

I'm not sure what's insane about Tkachuk. Numerous other teams had to use similar short term contracts that year - he got what the cap would allow and more years would have cost more dough they didn't have. Unless you throw the bank at him (and even then who knows what he does) I'm not sure what you do after that.

The Flames have two studs who do not want to play here. Management apparently had no idea how those players felt about remaining in the organization. They now have lost one for nothing and the second for likely a depressed value. Those are the statement of facts. After establishing those facts, I suppose counsel can debate how things played out after the fact.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by redforever

And that broken hand was his own fault for being sucked into a fight. Kid has to mature and know when to pick his spots.

Could happen to anyone. I prefer Calgary players play a tough game. Enought of the soft ####.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by dino7c

What happened to everyone saying he can't skate lol

LOL, that's Flames fans for ya. Iggy was said to be slow -well, duh, he is a bit slower when two defenders are draped all over him! Tkachuk is slow but his talent and grit overshadow that. He's not a smooth skater like Hanifin, who gets beat flat footed by the opposition forwards on any given night. So, wait until Tkachuk gets signed or gets traded. Then, you'll hear how slow he is

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The whole situation is weird. The other Tkachuk’s have made longterm commitments to the cities that they played in (Brady at least 10 years in Ottawa) and Keith 10 years to the Jets/Coyotes org and 10 years to the Blues. Matthew is walking after 6 years. Seems out of character compared to his brother and dad.

Well, KT did hold out in the preseason (in violation of his contract because he had 2 years left) and ended up with a one year deal with Phoenix. He also signed a 5 year offer sheet by Chicago when he played in the Peg (which they matched). He never actually signed anything more than 5 years IIRC.

Brady held out preseason. Then he did indeed sign 8 years.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Flames have two studs who do not want to play here. Management apparently had no idea how those players felt about remaining in the organization. They now have lost one for nothing and the second for likely a depressed value. Those are the statement of facts. After establishing those facts, I suppose counsel can debate how things played out after the fact.

Those aren't facts. Gaudreau is obviously not playing here anymore, but he didn't demand a trade out of here and appeared willing and ready to commit long term before a change of heart. I believe (opinion, not fact) that Tkachuk would stay if the Flames paid him enough coin.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Could happen to anyone. I prefer Calgary players play a tough game. Enought of the soft ####.

The issue was that it was a dumb fight for Tkachuk to take repeatedly

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Flames have two studs who do not want to play here. Management apparently had no idea how those players felt about remaining in the organization. They now have lost one for nothing and the second for likely a depressed value. Those are the statement of facts. After establishing those facts, I suppose counsel can debate how things played out after the fact.

Gaudreau didn't have any idea either, according to his own words. And his actions were consistent with wanting to re-sign at a good price. Tkachuk has said the same sort of thing even after the season.

Your description was "insane". Like they totally bungled it with clear other/better avenues. So let's hear them.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by camm13

Both sides would of course only do the trade if there's a commitment by both players on their new teams.

I would need more than that. The Flames couldn't extend Barzal until January and he could change his mind before then. He would be coming to a team with no built-in loyalty. The Flames would need at least a conditional 1st rounder in the event Barzal didn't re-sign, but even then, if the Isles received an extended Tkachuk and all the Flames got was one year of Barzal and a mid to late 1st rounder, that would look ugly in the long run. You could potentially swing Barzal the deadline if you needed to, but that would be pretty bad for optics as well.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The issue was that it was a dumb fight for Tkachuk to take repeatedly

For some.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, KT did hold out in the preseason (in violation of his contract because he had 2 years left) and ended up with a one year deal with Phoenix. He also signed a 5 year offer sheet by Chicago when he played in the Peg (which they matched). He never actually signed anything more than 5 years IIRC.

Brady held out preseason. Then he did indeed sign 8 years.

Iginla held out, don’t think anyone uses that as a proof point he wanted to leave town. Fact of the matter is in Keith’s case and in Brady’s, either under duress or for whatever reason, the teams were able to hold on to the asset.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I don't think Tkachuk wants out.
I think he wants more money than the Flames want to pay him and probably more time, but the organization is terrified to play this out the same way they did with Gaudreau.

Tkachuk is also kind if a victim of Gaudreau here, because everyone is assuming he'll do the same and he won't be given the same opportunity to play out another season and negotiate as it goes.
This may or may not be true, but he's been treated differently because of what just happened with #13.

[Dogbert]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Honestly does everyone forget the multiple years of rumours that Tkachuk wanted to play in St. Louis?

I know this is a one-two gut punch. But, this exact scenario was predicted by everyone before they even joined the league.

This is why all the talk of trading Tkachuk for a massive return is likely a pipe dream. Nobody’s going to offer the kind of return we’ll want for a player who’s leaving in the off-season - or, in the Blues’ case, one they know would be coming in for free in a year.

I can’t see the return for Tkachuk being anything more than what you would expect for a trade deadline rental. Cap dump, okay prospect, first-round pick.

[Muta]

Sure also would have been nice to have a brand new, modern arena complete by now (or at least in construction). We need all the advantages our small market can get in order to retain our good players and attract new ones. I can't imagine playing in one of the most archaic buildings in the league is a selling point to many. Calgary is so far behind other cities in sports stadia, it's sad.

[Samonadreau]

We just can't have nice things

[BoLevi]

Americans don't want to play in Calgary. Don't draft them.

[Hockey_Ninja]

What chances do you think we have of getting Kevin Durant from Brooklyn for Tkachuk?

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

What chances do you think we have of getting Kevin Durant from Brooklyn for Tkachuk?

First we'd have to Trade Tkachuk for Barnes, then we could flip him for Durant.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Gaudreau didn't have any idea either, according to his own words. And his actions were consistent with wanting to re-sign at a good price. Tkachuk has said the same sort of thing even after the season.

Your description was "insane". Like they totally bungled it with clear other/better avenues. So let's hear them.

Most teams sign their UFA’s before they can actually go on the open market. That is just a fact. It is a large reason why it is super rare for top 10 scorers in the league to make it to the open market. The Flames decided to go a different route with Gaudreau for whatever reason. They did not sign him last summer for whatever , they agreed to his terms about not talking contract in the season and decided to try to sign him after the season.

Most teams sign their prominent RFA’s before their last season before UFA. Columbus did it with Werenski, Tampa did it with Point, Boston did it with McAvoy. All last summer, all on the same 3 year contract term as Tkachuk. Flames decided not to do that. They also decided to not trade him last summer.

Are there other teams that have let a player the quality of Gaudreau go to UFA and let a player the quality of Tkachuk get to one year within UFA in the same summer without signing either one? Not sure that has happened in the NHL before. Usually teams lockdown or trade a player before they can walk (like the Blue Jackets did in getting a former 1st rounder, a 1st, a 2nd and moving up 20 spots in the first round for Jones) before they lose all their leverage.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Iginla held out, don’t think anyone uses that as a proof point he wanted to leave town. Fact of the matter is in Keith’s case and in Brady’s, either under duress or for whatever reason, the teams were able to hold on to the asset.

I think you need to relook at Keith's contract history. He signed an offer sheet in 1995 to get out of Winnipeg (but they matched and also stripped him of the C). He then held out in 1998 with two years to go. He ended up with an amended contract through 2001 and was traded partway through that season to the Blues.

The reason they were even able to hold onto him that long is that he wasn't about location, he was about money. If it was that easy, Matthew Tkachuk would sign here. Like Gaudreau, no one will offer him more dollars.