Hockey Canada, CHL settle lawsuit over alleged sexual assault involving WJ players

[devo22]

Originally Posted by agulati

Then again saying you weren’t involved, doesn’t necessarily mean that is the case either.
Has Dube or his agent said anything yet?

his agent had a statement:

Global News contacted David Cowan with O2K Sports Management.

Cowan said in a statement: “All of Global News’ questions will be asked and answered during the pending NHL investigation. Dillon did not engage in any wrongdoing, and he cooperated fully with the independent London Police Service investigation in 2018, through which all players were then cleared of any wrongdoing.”

The statement continued: “Naming Dillon or attempting to associate him in any way with alleged criminal wrongdoing, or alleging that he was not cooperative with the London Police or was unwilling to cooperate with Hockey Canada, will constitute materially false statements constituting defamation causing serious financial and reputational harm.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/8935781/h...yer-responses/

[agulati]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Dube’s agent said he was not involved in wrongdoing. No player was because they were cleared by the police.

So yeah, not a great statement so far.

Oh and he’ll sue you if you suggest anything.

That sounds like lawyer speak for sure.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by agulati

With the number of players who have spoken up and said they weren’t involved, it becomes quite telling if certain players don’t speak up.

Then again saying you weren’t involved, doesn’t necessarily mean that is the case either.
Has Dube or his agent said anything yet?

Buried in this tread is a statement from Dube's agent saying his client is not guilty of any wrongdoing, and then made threats about defaming him. Paraphrasing.

Not exactly a stern denial and doesn't leave me with a good feeling. I will assume he is innocent until proven otherwise, but hopefully the truth comes out.

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It sounds like what happened was the girl had a consensual encounter with one player, but then that player invited other players to come in an have their way with her when she was intoxicated. It probably happened so fast and was shocking to her, that the whole thing was on rails at that point. There may not have been an explicit withdrawal of consent due to fear and the shocking nature, even if she did not feel like a willing participant at that point. She very likely felt duress at the time even if she tried to hide it.

The players really ought to have known that they were crossing some pretty obvious legal and moral boundaries. I can't believe that they really thought what they were doing was normal or acceptable. Like hey, this girl isn't explicitly saying "no", so I guess I can do whatever I want? That's dumb. Just trying applying that logic to any other kind of assault or crime.

This makes a lot of sense (and is what I'm thinking as well) if it is what happened (which know of us know or not), there wasn't consent.

You don't need to withdraw consent when changing what was consented to, and consent can't be given after the fact if it wasn't given.

If you want to change a 1-1 encounter to a multi-party encounter, you need explicited consent.

[TheIronMaiden]

I'm not saying he is, but if Dube were involved in this, than it would have to be one of the worst Flames off seasons ever.

[GioforPM]

Making a report to the police does not raise criminal activity unless you lie.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Making a report to the police does not raise criminal activity unless you lie.

Yup, just an odd thing for Krovikan to pick on

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Buried in this tread is a statement from Dube's agent saying his client is not guilty of any wrongdoing, and then made threats about defaming him. Paraphrasing.

Not exactly a stern denial and doesn't leave me with a good feeling. I will assume he is innocent until proven otherwise, but hopefully the truth comes out.

Just curious what you’re level of proven guilty would be? Are you requiring a conviction? Good chance regardless of what comes out of this, unless a player there has matured and regretted his involvement and is willing to come clean, that even if a rape occurred that no one will be found guilty. Four years after the fact, some reasonable doubt with the texts, would be incredible if there was ever any conviction.

But if a player was found to have engaged in sexual activity in that room with the 7 others, would that amount to “guilty” in your eyes? Obviously the alleged gang rapists will say it was consensual, she says it wasn’t.

I’m just curious because it would be enough for me. I’d be fine if the 8 players involved never play another game once they are named.

Open question to anyone who wants to respond.

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Making a report to the police does not raise criminal activity unless you lie.

I'm just going to stop posting in this thread, clearly, the only analysis of the situation that is allowed is the players are 100% lying.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I'm not saying he is, but if Dube were involved in this, than it would have to be one of the worst Flames off seasons ever.

Absolutely the worst by far.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Krovikan

I'm just going to stop posting in this thread, clearly, the only analysis of the situation that is allowed is the players are 100% lying.

Multiple posters didn't understand what the hell you were trying to say and you got unnecessarily combative. I still don't know that I understand what you are trying to say, but whatever I can piece together is just weird nonsense.

[カナダ人です]

The fact that the player texting the girl the next day asked if she had gone to the police is hella damming IMO.

I'd say "Not a good look" but that is an understatement

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Krovikan

Everything about the text messages seems to be missing context.

If the players, whose lawyers released the text messages to the media, did so without the proper context to make them look good they should get new counsel. Because it was the players lawyers who released the texts. I suspect these texts are as good as the situation can look.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Krovikan

I'm just going to stop posting in this thread, clearly, the only analysis of the situation that is allowed is the players are 100% lying.

It's not either/or. Mom hears story, tells cops what she heard. That's not criminal no matter how it turns out. Unless she makes up stuff , there's no charge of making a false criminal complaint.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Krovikan

I'm just going to stop posting in this thread, clearly, the only analysis of the situation that is allowed is the players are 100% lying.

No, the assertion that the mom reporting the incident to the police potentially being criminal is the part that makes no sense. Seems like you want to set up the false accusation angle already...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by カナダ人です

The fact that the player texting the girl the next day asked if she had gone to the police is hella damming IMO.

I'd say "Not a good look" but that is an understatement

I suppose the police may have called him and then he makes that text to see if she was the reason why. That's pretty much the only innocent explanation.

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by Bonded

No, the assertion that the mom reporting the incident to the police potentially being criminal is the part that makes no sense. Seems like you want to set up the false accusation angle already...

I literally said in multiple posts, that it seems like there wasn't consent... but yes, make up your narrative...

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Krovikan

I literally said in multiple posts, that it seems like there wasn't consent... but yes, make up your narrative...

Why bring up the mom reaching the level of criminality then? That goes beyond a simple police report, to be criminal it would have to a false accusation that is bad enough to warrant a charge from the Crown. If you don't think there was consent or if it is murky enough for confusion how is the mom anywhere close to a criminal level?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Just curious what you’re level of proven guilty would be? Are you requiring a conviction? Good chance regardless of what comes out of this, unless a player there has matured and regretted his involvement and is willing to come clean, that even if a rape occurred that no one will be found guilty. Four years after the fact, some reasonable doubt with the texts, would be incredible if there was ever any conviction.

But if a player was found to have engaged in sexual activity in that room with the 7 others, would that amount to “guilty” in your eyes? Obviously the alleged gang rapists will say it was consensual, she says it wasn’t.

I’m just curious because it would be enough for me. I’d be fine if the 8 players involved never play another game once they are named.

Open question to anyone who wants to respond.

I get that guilt probably won't be 100% provable in this case. I am not sure where my personal threshold is yet for not giving the benefit of doubt, but it's getting pretty close at this point. I'm already wavering back and forth. I think if someone with inside knowledge came out and said, "these are the 8 players involved", that would be good enough. I wouldn't need a conviction in court. I can already believe what happened was a crime. Granted, that probably won't happen either.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Just curious what you’re level of proven guilty would be? Are you requiring a conviction? Good chance regardless of what comes out of this, unless a player there has matured and regretted his involvement and is willing to come clean, that even if a rape occurred that no one will be found guilty. Four years after the fact, some reasonable doubt with the texts, would be incredible if there was ever any conviction.

But if a player was found to have engaged in sexual activity in that room with the 7 others, would that amount to “guilty” in your eyes? Obviously the alleged gang rapists will say it was consensual, she says it wasn’t.

I’m just curious because it would be enough for me. I’d be fine if the 8 players involved never play another game once they are named.

Open question to anyone who wants to respond.

I am not willing to go there. Just being named can't be enough. I think you are correct that there is likely no criminal convictions, so that isn't the standard I would be looking for, but at the same time, I do think there may be different culpability for those 8. The text message is really strange, but is that guy #1 who might have a legitimate consent argument? Did some of the 8 watch and do nothing? All of it is terrible behaviour, but I think there is still a distinction that needs to be made between "Weinstein Terrible" and "Louis CK Terrible". We just don't know enough for me to say that all 8 should be out of an NHL job forever.