Hockey Canada, CHL settle lawsuit over alleged sexual assault involving WJ players

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I understand why people are confused by the noncommittal nature of Dube's statement and flat out silence from others, but I don't think they are actually the subject of the investigation. This is why their representation doesn't want any names disclosed. The settlement is done, presumably with an NDA. We might not like it, but it is what the parties agreed to.

None of the John Does agreed to an NDA. In fact they didn't agree to anything because they weren't included at all.

That's part of their "grievance" with how this was handled by Hockey Canada.

[OptimalTates]

And while they are looking at the broad issues with Hockey Canada, they are also operating on a specific investigation into this event which includes the possibility of sanctions against players who don't cooperate (which amounts to not making an international team pretty much).

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

And while they are looking at the broad issues with Hockey Canada, they are also operating on a specific investigation into this event which includes the possibility of sanctions against players who don't cooperate (which amounts to not making an international team pretty much).

Ya it is the NHL investigation that the players are worried about, thus why their lawyers tried to set no punishment as the standard. The NHL could do a lot of different things with this.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Fair enough. So what is the NHL investigation, exactly? Hockey Canada and the potential sanctions there, I get. My apologies if that part has been explained, but I wasn't aware of an NHL investigation.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Fair enough. So what is the NHL investigation, exactly? Hockey Canada and the potential sanctions there, I get. My apologies if that part has been explained, but I wasn't aware of an NHL investigation.

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-stateme...ue/c-334338122

Two days ago, the National Hockey League was advised of a lawsuit involving sexual allegations filed against eight unnamed members of the 2018 Canadian World Junior hockey team.

We were subsequently provided with the Statement of Claim, containing allegations of behavior that is both abhorrent and reprehensible. We will endeavor to determine the underlying facts and, to the extent this may involve players who are now in the NHL, we will determine what action, if any, would be appropriate. We will have no further comment at this time.

[Slava]

Maybe I’m alone in this, but it’s so crazy that “we” allow these organizations to investigate and settle these matters on their own. It’s just so insane, where you allegedly have eight guys gang rape a woman and the organization completes a legal settlement with an NDA. No one thinks the police should be involved immediately? No one thinks it’s a big enough deal to say anything for 4 years?

The coverups are appalling. I don’t mean to suggest that this is purely a Hockey Canada problem, this is just the latest example. The victims sign the NDA and just want the nightmare to end, and frankly it’s disgusting.

[Aarongavey]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...t-allegations/

How Hockey Canada used registration fees to build a fund to cover sexual-assault claims

A portion of player registration fees from all age groups – from beginner Timbits Hockey to adult recreational leagues – flows into this reserve fund, but there is no evidence Hockey Canada tells parents and players the purpose of that money.

By its own assertion, the involvement of Hockey Canada’s insurance company in the settlement of the alleged gang rape lawsuit would have required a rigorous investigation into the allegations. Otherwise, no such settlement could be reached.

But the National Equity Fund appears to have no such controls. It can pay out at Hockey Canada’s discretion, with no outside scrutiny and no further investigation, since it is controlled by the organization itself.

Great reporting in this article.

[Slava]

Gross. The culture is so toxic that they’re preparing in advance for these things to happen and keep them hidden.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

Maybe I’m alone in this, but it’s so crazy that “we” allow these organizations to investigate and settle these matters on their own. It’s just so insane, where you allegedly have eight guys gang rape a woman and the organization completes a legal settlement with an NDA. No one thinks the police should be involved immediately? No one thinks it’s a big enough deal to say anything for 4 years?

The coverups are appalling. I don’t mean to suggest that this is purely a Hockey Canada problem, this is just the latest example. The victims sign the NDA and just want the nightmare to end, and frankly it’s disgusting.

My guess is that when the victim refuses to talk to police, they are pretty much hand cuffed to be able to do much about it.

The police need evidence. Short of a rape kit and/or a victims statement, it is nearly impossible to find anything that would stand up against cross examination in a "he said/she said" kind of crime.

Also they have to really tread lightly when the victim does not want their name out there, which appears to be the case with this woman.

Tough situation for sure, but really hard to lay blame on the cops from what I have read.

[Jason14h]

More details

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/...awsuit-police/

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by transplant99

My guess is that when the victim refuses to talk to police, they are pretty much hand cuffed to be able to do much about it.

The police need evidence. Short of a rape kit and/or a victims statement, it is nearly impossible to find anything that would stand up against cross examination in a "he said/she said" kind of crime.

Also they have to really tread lightly when the victim does not want their name out there, which appears to be the case with this woman.

Tough situation for sure, but really hard to lay blame on the cops from what I have read.

Yeah this part is hard to accept for a lot of people (myself included). The crown can charge anyone, they don’t “need” the victim to agree. But, without her, in a “words vs. Words” case, the crown is pretty much hooped. I think most people would agree they’d like to see criminal charges laid as appropriate, but it’s not that easy. And say they had went for it with minimal evidence and a witness who didn’t want to continue that nightmare. Then they are potentially acquitted, and their names are cleared… which obviously nobody wants.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by transplant99

My guess is that when the victim refuses to talk to police, they are pretty much hand cuffed to be able to do much about it.

The police need evidence. Short of a rape kit and/or a victims statement, it is nearly impossible to find anything that would stand up against cross examination in a "he said/she said" kind of crime.

Also they have to really tread lightly when the victim does not want their name out there, which appears to be the case with this woman.

Tough situation for sure, but really hard to lay blame on the cops from what I have read.

Yeah, and I don’t entirely disagree and don’t lay blame with the police at all. I guess I just think if I were in charge of an organization (or part of one) where these allegations are known and proven to the point where we need to settle, the police ought to be notified as well. I know the standard for criminal prosecution is higher than a civil matter, but that’s not my call (in that scenario).

I also think that quite a few victims are silenced with the NDA. Basically, they agree to not disclose anything to anyone. That in and of itself prevents prosecution. I’m not saying that’s the case here, but it wouldn’t be the first time where a victim is silenced because they agreed to sign. That tactic (not sure what else to call it), is just vile and disturbing.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

More details

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/...awsuit-police/

“You said you were having fun,” the player wrote.

“I was really drunk, didn’t feel good about it at all after. But I’m not trying to get anyone in trouble,” she replied.

“I was ok with going home with you, it was everyone else afterwards that I wasn’t expecting. I just felt like I was being made fun of and taken advantage of.”

I am really not sure if the texts demonstrate what the lawyers who gave them to the Globe and Mail think they demonstrate. But I guess when dealt with bad facts and bad law you have to play the card you are dealt.

Getting the individual on cross examination who made the two videos would be fun as a lawyer. I wonder if they make videos after every sexual encounter? If they don’t, I wonder why they made two videos after this encounter. If this was the only encounter where they made a video I would ask why that is. If they do have other videos that they could present into evidence that would definitely be helpful to show a pattern of making videos confirming consent after the event. But consent confirmed after a sexual activity is not relevant unless there is proof of consent during the sexual activity.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah, and I don’t entirely disagree and don’t lay blame with the police at all. I guess I just think if I were in charge of an organization (or part of one) where these allegations are known and proven to the point where we need to settle, the police ought to be notified as well. I know the standard for criminal prosecution is higher than a civil matter, but that’s not my call (in that scenario).

I also think that quite a few victims are silenced with the NDA. Basically, they agree to not disclose anything to anyone. That in and of itself prevents prosecution. I’m not saying that’s the case here, but it wouldn’t be the first time where a victim is silenced because they agreed to sign. That tactic (not sure what else to call it), is just vile and disturbing.

Wait sorry, I thought the reports said that the police were notified and that they completed an investigation. Although these new quotes sound like the players pressured her to call the police off… this investigation can’t be completed quick enough. Boot all 8 of them.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Wait sorry, I thought the reports said that the police were notified and that they completed an investigation.

Yeah, I guess they did complete the investigation and I’m off base there.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah, I guess they did complete the investigation and I’m off base there.

I thought I missed something. Not like the way it did go is any better.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

More details

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/...awsuit-police/

The quotes by the player asking her to fix the situation are exactly the attitude I expected.

I’ve played hockey a long time and I’ve met a lot of ####ty people. I can honestly say I don’t have a single friend who has ever done something remotely similar to this. If someone has, then they sure bottled it up tight. I’ve met enough ####ty people playing hockey who say scary things and treat women like ####, but they are almost always unlikable #######s. They exact types you’d expect. People who I do not hang around.

My main point is, basically everyone knows and knew this was wrong. They all knew it, and still know it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Slava

Gross. The culture is so toxic that they’re preparing in advance for these things to happen and keep them hidden.

Well, as much as I think they bungled, I think this aspect is not being interpreted right. They have a fund for unexpected costs. When asked they said, yeah that would include these kind of claims. It would also cover other kinds of claims or even costs which aren’t claims per se. IOW It’s not a sexual assault fund.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, as much as I think they bungled, I think this aspect is not being interpreted right. They have a fund for unexpected costs. When asked they said, yeah that would include these kind of claims. It would also cover other kinds of claims or even costs which aren’t claims per se. IOW It’s not a sexual assault fund.

It is weird that they would go to the wall to fight the guy who was partially paralyzed in a Hockey Canada game but they moved very quickly to cover the costs of something that could be damaging to their reputation but had nothing to do with something that happened on the ice.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Wait sorry, I thought the reports said that the police were notified and that they completed an investigation. Although these new quotes sound like the players pressured her to call the police off… this investigation can’t be completed quick enough. Boot all 8 of them.

Victim told Mom about it the next day. (totally normal?????)

Mom horrified and called the police.

Player pressures victim via text.

Victim tells police its all a big misunderstanding.


It's unclear if the police pursued anything beyond this point. If this is what statements refer to as 'cleared of wrongdoing' then yikes.

Yikes no matter what.