[News] UPD: Tkachuk arbitration hearing set for Aug 11

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Flames Fans: We should honor Johnny's request to not negotiate during the season so as not to anger him, but now we're paying the price for being Mr. Nice Guy and we should be ruthless in our dealings with other players.

Also Flames Fans: Can't believe we're leveraging the system and taking Tkachuk to arbitration and risking angering him and his agent.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

If the guy doesn't want to stay in Calgary long term, the Flames should work out a trade this summer and let him go where he wants. Nobody should be forced to play anywhere they don't want to be. I don't understand how a draft is even legal.

He can play hockey in a ton of cities without issue. It’s only the NHL he can’t. That’s why it’s legal.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Flames Fans: We should honor Johnny's request to not negotiate during the season so as not to anger him, but now we're paying the price for being Mr. Nice Guy and we should be ruthless in our dealings with other players.

Also Flames Fans: Can't believe we're leveraging the system and taking Tkachuk to arbitration and risking angering him and his agent.

Just wait until he signs, plays here for 8 years and then leaves as a UFA as revenge for Tre’s tough negotiating tactics!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I thought he also meant that Tkachuk should have been given the same deadline and traded. Because there’s pretty much zero trade available for Gaudreau at the draft. Keeping in mind (a) his list; (b) his potential salary and the room needed; and (c) the end result.

To be clear, Gaudreau should have been given a final offer before his NTC kicked in, and that should have been before the 2021 draft. No signature and he should have been dealt then. When that didn't happen a similar drop dead date should have been given and without a signature you have to assume that Gaudreau is not signing and Tkachuk is accepting his QO. At that point you have to go scorched earth and see if you can make a deal for a franchise alterning player at the draft. With Wright available, you trade Tkachuk and get that franchise center this team has been missing, and hopefully you get something else along with that pick.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They don't make the playoffs without Hiller, not even close

Ramo played in over 40% of the games and had a better winning percentage than Hillier. You make it sound like it was Kiprusoff/McLennan.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Flames Fans: We should honor Johnny's request to not negotiate during the season so as not to anger him, but now we're paying the price for being Mr. Nice Guy and we should be ruthless in our dealings with other players.

Also Flames Fans: Can't believe we're leveraging the system and taking Tkachuk to arbitration and risking angering him and his agent.

Hot take. Or the later could be, can't believe Treliving couldn't get his #### done without allowing this to go to arbitration. There is no benefit to going to arbitration other than "buying more time."

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CF84

Tkachuk could have filed for salary arbitration and would have gotten more than his qualifying offer which means he never intended to take his qualifying offer in the first place. The Flames knew he would hold out into the season (he's a Tkachuk) and they put a hard deadline on that. Matthew is far more ruthless than his brother and even gave him advice during his dealings. I don't see it as being any more complicated than this and it's a very business savvy move on Treliving's part.

I'm not sure he would receive more in player elected arbitration than his QO. The arbitrator would take into consideration previous years production as well.

I would love it if an insider could find out what Tkachuk's intentions were.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

He can play hockey in a ton of cities without issue. It’s only the NHL he can’t. That’s why it’s legal.

Imagine your seventeen year old daughter wants to get a job flipping burgers, but in order to do so, she has to enter a draft and could wind up working at a McDonald's in Cape Breton instead of Calgary. It makes no sense. There's no draft in soccer, kids are free agents (outside of MLS) and are free to sign with any team they like for whatever money that team is willing to pay them.

[browna]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Depends on the contract but no, because I don’t think this is a position the Flames should have been in.

So a signed Tkachuk going down this path is a different outcome than a signed Tkachuk going down whatever path you would've preferred in hindsight?

[powderjunkie]

Sorry if already answered, but since offer sheets are gone, is he now unable to talk to other teams without permission?


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[manwiches]

Oi Vey.... I get it, losing Johnny sucked, but there are far too many ex girlfriend vibes in here.

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[rhino]

There was also the possibility of Tkachuk not signing the QO forcing the flames to trade him where he wants

[PaperBagger'14]

Good on Tre for going to arbitration. No matter the outcome, he strengthened the flames position here and seems to be less likely to repeat the mistake he did with Gaudreau.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by browna

So a signed Tkachuk going down this path is a different outcome than a signed Tkachuk going down whatever path you would've preferred in hindsight?

I don’t want a signed Tkachuk for one year. I’ve been consistent that if the Flames couldn’t sign Gaudreau they should be rebuilding. Should have traded Tkachuk at the draft if he didn’t want to come along for the rebuild.

If Tkachuk signs for 8 years at 6M, I’ll renounce my belief that Treliving completed botched this off season. But if Tkachuk is awarded a 9.5M contract by the arbitrator this is a comically bad off season.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Good on Tre for going to arbitration. No matter the outcome, he strengthened the flames position here and seems to be less likely to repeat the mistake he did with Gaudreau.

At least his is forcing the issue. Good on him for that.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by rhino

There was also the possibility of Tkachuk not signing the QO forcing the flames to trade him where he wants

Or they play hardball if the trades don’t materialize to be worth it and wish him well playing in Russia until he’s 27.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

It’s almost like they are completely different scenarios and knowing what Gaudreau would do at the draft mattered while an actual arbitrary deadline in summer doesn’t mean anything when you retain the rights of a player for one year regardless.

Not really. For one you wanted to set an arbitrary deadline to sign Gaudreau with the intend of trading him if he missed its, not even caring if you got peanuts for him, so you could “build through the draft” in one of the shakiest drafts in recent memory with all your moves to make in a couple of weeks leading up. These moves included presenting Tkachuk with the choice between 8 years or a trade with, again, the draft as a deadline,

In the second situation, you think it’s bad for the Flames to set a legitimate deadline for Tkachuk where chuck needs to decide between a long term deal (not necessarily 8) or his one year arbitration award and likely subsequent trade if he goes the latter route.

The situations might be different in detail but they’re similar enough in spirit that it’s inconsistent and makes little sense, unless your entire deal is just “waiting for something you can criticise Treliving for” like you said previously.

What the Flames have done is a significantly smarter version than what you have done, as they retain the deadline that puts pressure on the player but still have time to either negotiate a proper deal or negotiate a trade which could include draft picks for 2023 (a stronger draft) without being handcuffed into taking the best of what was available a week before the 2022 draft.

So it’s complete nonsense for you not to support it. It’s your approach done correctly.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Hot take. Or the later could be, can't believe Treliving couldn't get his #### done without allowing this to go to arbitration. There is no benefit to going to arbitration other than "buying more time."

And what's wrong with having more time?! That stance makes no sense.

Other aspect of this move is that it signals to the league that the Flames are likely open for business. Perhaps that spurs some teams to reach out, giving the Flames a better marketplace and therefore more options.

I'm old enough to remember when this team made a trade, and after it was done a bunch of league sources said 'we didn't even know he was on the market... we would have offered the Flames more than Ian White'

[Monahammer]

I will applaud the management team for this ballsy move. Though to me this is probably a clear indication that Tkachuk is pushing for short term only, in which case we SHOULD trade him and anyone else. But I understand ownership likely is not allowing this.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Well Pepsi, we don't know what number Tkachuk's team is going to drop on the arbiter. Could be a big number the arbiter picks in between and the Flames are then on the hook for a big salary for the year, and he's still an UFA next summer. The only benefit is time they get to extend negotiations. There's no benefit for Tkachuk to sign until the arbiter awards him more than $9M qualifying offer.